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The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:12 am
by Gobbo
I find there is just so many intricacies and hidden secrets to the mud and its code. So here is a place to bring out your inner twink and contribute little pieces of information that might help less experienced players compete with veterans.

My contribution that I learned from a staff member of another mud is...

When you ambush someone from hiding the first round rolls against your hide skill, it adds +50 to your attack which is apparently the difference between familiar and legendary. This is huge. Also the second round rolls against your sneak skill so when it comes to ambushing both hide and sneak are paramount for a massive boost to damage. I believe there is a possibility for a third round but I don't know what it rolls against.

Another tip is if you have a loaded firearm (bow) and have 'set autofire' enabled, when you are attacked you will get one pretty accurate shot off at your attacker before melee is engaged. If you one hand a crossbow and dual wield with a longsword I have found this a potent combination for getting the first shot in combat without debilitating yourself for future rounds.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:04 am
by Jarlhen
This is such a terrible idea...

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:04 am
by Songweaver
The secondary sneak roll for ambush actually gives you the bonus for the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Auto-fire's accuracy is still determined by the amount of time you have aimed at your target, just like normal. It just ensures that you'll get a shot off.

Here's a couple more:

If you are in combat with any of my characters, you can type 'sit', and then type 'teleport <direction>' to escape them. Ignore the fail echo, it takes about 30 seconds to work.

If you are in combat with any of my characters, you can type 'set frantic', then disconnect from your MUD client and wait two minutes before logging back in. All of your skills will permanently be increased to Legendary.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:13 am
by Gobbo
Heres an actual tip for the newbies who dont know. If you are hidden and you sneak to another room without any mobs in it or the room you just left. You will never be revealed, even if you dont have the sneak skill and have only beginner hide. You can be a master scout with a little patience by not moving when you shouldn't.

Edit: However it is only a matter of time until you accidentally move just as a mob wanders into the room you are leaving or the room you are entering while in motion. Revealing you then getting you murdered by a warg pack. That is why sneak is still a useful skill, it gives you a chance to not be murdered if you slip up.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:14 am
by Real
Skillup timer: 1.5 - 2 hrs logged in (not idle)
Branch timer: 1 hour logged in (not idle)

Good way to keep track - keep an xp chart.

A snippet of one of mine:
(I forget to log, but when I remember I write it down)
(This is a terrible example but my old charts are hard to find)

But the premise remains. Track the time of day, and the hours played in SCORE.

AIM
( Novice )
12:06 AM / 1d 19hrs
( Amateur )
11:40 PM / 2d 6hrs
6:38 AM / 2d 13hrs
1:16 AM / 3d 13hrs
( Familiar )
8:39 AM / 6d 21hrs

<<< BUTCHERING >>>
( Beginner )
7:22 AM / 2d 14hrs

<} Artistry {>
( Beginner )
7:26 AM / 2d 14hrs
5:02 PM / 3d 5hrs
2:42 AM / 3d 15hrs

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:16 am
by Gobbo
Real wrote:Skillup timer: 1.5 - 2 hrs logged in (not idle)
Branch timer: 1 hour logged in (not idle)

Good way to keep track - keep an xp chart.

A snippet of one of mine:
(I forget to log, but when I remember I write it down)
(This is a terrible example but my old charts are hard to find)

But the premise remains. Track the time of day, and the hours played in SCORE.

AIM
( Novice )
12:06 AM / 1d 19hrs
( Amateur )
11:40 PM / 2d 6hrs
6:38 AM / 2d 13hrs
1:16 AM / 3d 13hrs
( Familiar )
8:39 AM / 6d 21hrs

<<< BUTCHERING >>>
( Beginner )
7:22 AM / 2d 14hrs

<} Artistry {>
( Beginner )
7:26 AM / 2d 14hrs
5:02 PM / 3d 5hrs
2:42 AM / 3d 15hrs
This is what I needed, in theory you can raise a skill 12 times in a 24 hour period if you are crazy try hard? Or is it also capped per day? I think it is.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:19 am
by Songweaver
Here's another one: GUARDing the character that you are attacking in melee combat will cause you to save that target from yourself, and in a philosophical sort of way, doesn't that mean that you'll be saving yourself from yourself?

On another note, there is no cap to how many times you can raise a single skill in a given day. The timer is all that matters.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:55 am
by Brian
Jarlhen wrote:This is such a terrible idea...
It's both a terrible idea and a good idea. It's terrible because you don't want this to be the focus of an RPI, and it's good because there are players out there who know all of this stuff and there are players that don't know any of it, and it creates a slanted playing field. If this can level the field then it's good. Take someone like Songweaver or Krelm for instance; they've worked a lot with this code and probably know just about everything there is to know about it. And you hope with that great power will come great responsibility but it's probably going to be better to just let everyone know the secrets :P

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:15 am
by Gobbo
Brian wrote:
Jarlhen wrote:This is such a terrible idea...
It's both a terrible idea and a good idea. It's terrible because you don't want this to be the focus of an RPI, and it's good because there are players out there who know all of this stuff and there are players that don't know any of it, and it creates a slanted playing field. If this can level the field then it's good. Take someone like Songweaver or Krelm for instance; they've worked a lot with this code and probably know just about everything there is to know about it. And you hope with that great power will come great responsibility but it's probably going to be better to just let everyone know the secrets :P
This 100%. Songweaver teach us senpai!

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:52 am
by Hawkwind
This will only be a bad thing for roleplay.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:54 pm
by Songweaver
For what it's worth, I do think that you can be great at roleplay, and be great at the code at the same time. It's all about knowing when to twink, and when not to.

Versus mobs, I'm always twinking. Why? Because mobs are the ultimate twinks. They'll run in and kill your unconscious prisoner without even an emote. They'll chase you endlessly, refuse ROE, and don't care if you're linkdead.

When I'm interacting with players, I don't twink as much, unless I feel that it's in my best interest because the other player is proving to be rather twinky.

It's difficult to play a badass, experienced Beorning barbarian if you don't know that agility improves your accuracy and speed with the 'strike' command, or that small wargs guard the bigger wargs when you target them. It's tough to play a convincing elf, if you don't know the best practices to improve your sneak/hide, and that those skills are checked against the highest INT stat in the target room(s), as opposed to by some other means.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:52 pm
by Icarus
As a note, abusing some of the knowledge in this thread will not gain you RPP, and may infact lose you points. That's easily the difference in starting your next char with no boosts, and getting 25+ points in boosts off the bat.

Hiding in the midst of combat, for example, to get a second combat bonus, will lead to staff smiting you. We endeavor to eliminate abusable options, but twinks will twinks. But know those twinks will get skills set nogain and lose RPP.

I set three people nogain last week for twinking, as a heads up. We are RPI with a capital I.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:30 pm
by Gobbo
Icarus wrote:As a note, abusing some of the knowledge in this thread will not gain you RPP, and may infact lose you points. That's easily the difference in starting your next char with no boosts, and getting 25+ points in boosts off the bat.

Hiding in the midst of combat, for example, to get a second combat bonus, will lead to staff smiting you. We endeavor to eliminate abusable options, but twinks will twinks. But know those twinks will get skills set nogain and lose RPP.

I set three people nogain last week for twinking, as a heads up. We are RPI with a capital I.
This thread was more to talk about the hidden game mechanics that tend to set apart the veterans. I don't condone blatent twinking.

However sometimes its hard to tell what is considered terrible twinking if there isn't a warning. Getting set nogain without being warned first might not accomplish anything.

I mean is swimming across the river as a short cut or a flee maneuver considered bad. I've seen many of the top level players do it all the time.

In fact I have a theory that my hide was set to nogain but I can't be sure. I simply afk hid when I was busy in another window sometimes for great lengths of time. Apparently this upped hide over time and it had to be fixed. It was unintentional skill gaining. Frigga had to remove hiding from most of Utterby to stop me from this. Going through the trouble of that instead of simply saying 'dont do this' would've been the responsible thing to do.

So yeah please give a fair warning before nogaining people. Unless they should very clearly and obviously know better. (Hiding in combat to get combat bonus)

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:38 pm
by Songweaver
I've dropped out of combat, re-hid, and then attacked again to get the bonus in the past. I also did it with an emote that suggested that my character ducked back behind a tree, waited for the other character to draw near, then jumped out and smashed.

Is that unbelievable? Is that too much twinking? To me, it makes sense that in the midst of hectic group on group combat, I might be able to hide for a moment to blindside an enemy.

It's not like there are rules as to what is acceptable and what is not.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:43 pm
by Gobbo
Songweaver wrote:I've dropped out of combat, re-hid, and then attacked again to get the bonus in the past. I also did it with an emote that suggested that my character ducked back behind a tree, waited for the other character to draw near, then jumped out and smashed.

Is that unbelievable? Is that too much twinking? To me, it makes sense that in the midst of hectic group on group combat, I might be able to hide for a moment to blindside an enemy.

It's not like there are rules as to what is acceptable and what is not.
This is -very- true, there is no list of rules as to what is acceptable and not acceptable. I feel for whoever was set nogain, including myself if I was unknowingly one. These people could be punished because they dont know what is okay and what isn't.

When Songweaver of all players doesn't know what the staff want to see and not to see you need to clear things up a bit. :lol:

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:46 pm
by Icarus
What, you want ROE?

Song knows better than most, he just has a different philosophy than us re code vs rp. He knows where the line is very well.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:51 pm
by Gobbo
Icarus wrote:What, you want ROE?

Song knows better than most, he just has a different philosophy than us re code vs rp. He knows where the line is very well.
I don't think ROE pertains to this. I mean it might pertain to the combat twinkery listed. It doesn't address all the other forms of twinking that can get you in trouble unknowingly.

At least send me a pm IF I am nogain for any reason so I can actually correct the behavior. Rather than be left to make the mistake over and over. I've been mudding since old osgiliath and I have grown exponentially in my career, but that is only by staff slapping my wrist when necessary. People can't improve if not given the chance.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:55 pm
by Icarus
You create a thread with Twinkery in the title. You list the exact bonus to ambush, song mentioms he's done it multiple times in combat. I say that twinkery will get you docked RPP. No one who doesn't realize how absurdly good abusing ambush is would do it multiple times per combat.

I don't see the disconnect. Could you please outline it?

Edit:
That said, I always echo to folks who are punished. Feedback is given.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:58 pm
by tehkory
Songweaver wrote:I've dropped out of combat, re-hid, and then attacked again to get the bonus in the past. I also did it with an emote that suggested that my character ducked back behind a tree, waited for the other character to draw near, then jumped out and smashed.

Is that unbelievable? Is that too much twinking? To me, it makes sense that in the midst of hectic group on group combat, I might be able to hide for a moment to blindside an enemy.

It's not like there are rules as to what is acceptable and what is not.
I don't think it's terribly fair/reasonable, nor immersive or fun. I get what you're trying to do, and I don't think it's awful, it's just on the other side of the line of what makes sense for me. It's not far over my line, but it's over my line. The first ambush is sensible; subsequent ones don't get punished for being repeated, after all, even when someone should be pretty aware of the tactic.

My line doesn't matter, but knowing what Staff's is. I'm not saying RoE, so much as I'm saying 'well let's

And yeah, I'm absolutely 100% going to give no ducks about non-animated NPCs. I've had Staff animate NPCs I was hunting previously, and then nearly got killed for it(happily, though! It was fun!). Even then I'm going to err on the side of twinkery, because I know Staff aren't animating every single NPC, but instead only some of them, and so I'm not going to throw my PC on their sword because 1 out of seven wargs is able to emote at me/show restraint.

Nobody told me I was doing something wrong -then-, and so I'll do it again next time. If I got set nogain for that, without warning(or at least notice!) I'd be pretty unhappy.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:00 pm
by Melkor
Not ROE. Think Gobbo's just asking for a list of Do's And Don'ts.

Icarus just noted something that will get staff to smite you (hiding during combat for the extra bonus) then Songweaver said he's done this and thinks it's okay. So which is it?

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:01 pm
by Gobbo
It was amusing title. I never claimed to actually use ambush multiple times. I dont condone it at all its very gamey. I can sympathize with it and I'm sure if it was straight up against the rules songweaver would no longer do it.

This thread's purpose was to teach the less experienced folks important mechanics. The fact it is called twinking is simply to poke fun at the fact that ANYONE who plays to raise skills or seek a coded advantage is called a twink. This goes back years and years.

By reading this thread and using any of the knowledge therein as benefit to you, you are now a twink (jokingly).

ps: It is the 'glorious' twinking thread. Does that not imply the title is not serious?

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:03 pm
by Justanothacivy
Ok so lets see here.

I wouldn't call any of this discussed so far as "twinky" as much as knowledge of code. Ok except for the rehiding thing, that was posted while I was writing this in at work. :mrgreen:

Use the command 'cover' will make you practically unhittable by ranged weapons but you will still take trauma damage. Make sure you stand afterwards incase something hostile enters the same room as you.

Most NPC's will not chase you into a swim room. Hence why the river has been used as an escape route so many times.

Proper use of the 'watch' command will prevent your target from hiding from you while you remain within sight.

One of my pet peeves with the current stealth code is if you are hidden and you suddenly lose the hidden flag from your prompt means something else hidden has entered your room and spotted you. Even though you would have no indication that that has happened yet...

When you are subdued by something you can attempt to use 'escape' which will roll against Str. Failure means you take flat damage to your neck from the struggle. Like from a fall.

Willpower can reduce a plethera of combat penalties if high enough. Also increases the amount of Trauma damage you can take.

The command 'eavesdrop' can be used to good effect by watching and standing in the direction you want to hear from. Potentially useful to find out if you are being plotted against or if folks are making fun of your character behind your back.

Set highlight and set autodia I believe are a must have for combat. Shows your opponents health and highlights any combat messeges directed at you or done by you.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:08 pm
by Gobbo
Justanothacivy wrote:Ok so lets see here.

I wouldn't call any of this discussed so far as "twinky" as much as knowledge of code.

Use the command 'cover' will make you practically unhittable by ranged weapons but you will still take trauma damage. Make sure you stand afterwards incase something hostile enters the same room as you.

Most NPC's will not chase you into a swim room. Hence why the river has been used as an escape route so many times.

Proper use of the 'watch' command will prevent your target from hiding from you while you remain within sight.

One of my pet peeves with the current stealth code is if you are hidden and you suddenly lose the hidden flag from your prompt means something else hidden has entered your room and spotted you. Even though you would have no indication that that has happened yet...

When you are subdued by something you can attempt to use 'escape' which will roll against Str. Failure means you take flat damage to your neck from the struggle. Like from a fall.

Willpower can reduce a plethera of combat penalties if high enough. Also increases the amount of Trauma damage you can take.

The command 'eavesdrop' can be used to good effect by watching and standing in the direction you want to hear from. Potentially useful to find out if you are being plotted against or if folks are making fun of your character behind your back.

Set highlight and set autodia I believe are a must have for combat. Shows your opponents health and highlights any combat messeges directed at you or done by you.
This is exactly what I was looking for, I bolded what even I didn't know after 10 years of RPI's.

Holy crap on my last character I was subdued and I was trying a number of commands and trying to search help files on how I may escape. Now I know the command is 'escape.'

As for set highlight, it is currently bugged and will eat combat messages. You will still take and deal damage but the combat round will show as a blank space as the echo is omitted. So dont use this.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:09 pm
by Icarus
As an honest note, and giving the benefit of the doubt, myself and Frigga will post a list of DOs and DON'Ts regarding what we consider abuse and twinkery. Perhaps standards have not been explicitly outlined, and if they need to be myself and the rest of staff are happy to provide guidance.

Expect this within a week, and please harass me if I don't get it posted.

Re: The glorious Twinking thread!

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:22 pm
by Songweaver
But, Arnold re-hides and ambushes all the time in the Conan the Barbarian film!

In all seriousness, discussing what is and what is not beyond the line, then coming up with a list of intolerable things is probably in the best interest for everyone, if the staff decides to more heavily police code tactics/twinking. Better yet would be to create coded safeguards against the sorts of activities that you want to discourage, but I do understand that that demands the aid of a programmer with some free time.

In terms of balance (in regards to re-hiding), it does take time to hide in the middle of combat (usually about the amount of time that you could have struck once or twice, depending on your agility and weapon). Hide can also be countered via the 'watch' command, or someone targeting you before you slip behind that tree. It demands more active playing on your opponent's side to counter the tactic, but it's entirely doable. I've done it myself to people trying my own ambush tricks against me. In most cases, it's only worth it versus opponents that seem to have very high defensive skills, in relation to your own offensive combat skills.

Hide/ambush was conceived as a sneak/backstab like tactic similar to one that you might find in a game like Dungeons and Dragons. It makes particular sense to me in this setting, since the majority of the fighting takes place in heavily wooded areas.