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ROE and YOU

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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby tehkory » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:01 pm

Jme wrote:This would be a solution - since all the twinks would be stuck at 0RPP average characters, and the ones that show they can be realistic, sensible and fair - get the RPP to make more interesting characters to fill the world in important positions rather than allowing the uncooperative players to progress until they're ready to take the game seriously.

Except Staff are swearing this position already exists, -without- using encumbering RoE.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby EltanimRas » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Why don't we have someone (Jme?) draw up a first draft of a "Guide to RP Etiquette for PvP Encounters" or something in a separate thread for comments? Just don't say "ROE" anywhere near it, because that term's plainly been forever ruined. ;)

Some of this stuff is common sense, sure. But a lot of it depends on cultural norms that differ from RPI to RPI -- never mind that not all our new players will come from that background. Other parts are only common sense if you know the code, which, again, everybody doesn't. I don't.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Zargen » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:19 pm

At least this isnt Arm. Ive lost more than a couple characters to PC bandits who engage the moment they walk in.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby jimhabegger » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:16 am

One of my hopes, for what might come out of discussions like this, as long as they stay friendly, would be a growing and spreading *friendly* awareness of how mutually exclusive some of our interests are, and some willingness to try to help make room *somewhere* in the game, for *every* player to play the kind of game she thought she was welcome to play here.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:27 am

I am still really peeved about something that happened a few days ago, so gonna vent here as it is mildly related.

Going out with somebody and then pretending to be afk when an aggro mob walks in and attacks the person you're with, so you can rob them when they die is not cool. I don't care if you have good IC reasons for wanting them dead, you better emote standing there and doing nothing then, otherwise you're just abusing and taking advantage of the other player OOCly in a really doucherrific way.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:02 am

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:I am still really peeved about something that happened a few days ago, so gonna vent here as it is mildly related.

Going out with somebody and then pretending to be afk when an aggro mob walks in and attacks the person you're with, so you can rob them when they die is not cool. I don't care if you have good IC reasons for wanting them dead, you better emote standing there and doing nothing then, otherwise you're just abusing and taking advantage of the other player OOCly in a really doucherrific way.


Wtf...? I think that's ban worthy.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:13 am

Admittedly, I died surprisingly quick, but in the span of the 6-7 attacks the mob got, the person with me just stood there and didn't even join combat, let alone try to rescue me like I asked as soon as the fight started (first hit was a bleeder).

Regardless, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. (If you couldn't tell.)
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby tehkory » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:40 am

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Admittedly, I died surprisingly quick, but in the span of the 6-7 attacks the mob got, the person with me just stood there and didn't even join combat, let alone try to rescue me like I asked as soon as the fight started (first hit was a bleeder).

Regardless, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. (If you couldn't tell.)

If you're saying what it reads like you're saying, you died in 6-7 hits. That's a pretty short period of time to publicly accuse someone of ignoring you while you died.

It's also best to leave these things to Staff support tickets. Top right of the screen. Support.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:44 am

Next time set pacifist, flee, and then come back. Your 'afk' friend will now be the one with the aggro. Tada, you were 'rescued'.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:01 am

tehkory wrote:
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Admittedly, I died surprisingly quick, but in the span of the 6-7 attacks the mob got, the person with me just stood there and didn't even join combat, let alone try to rescue me like I asked as soon as the fight started (first hit was a bleeder).

Regardless, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. (If you couldn't tell.)

If you're saying what it reads like you're saying, you died in 6-7 hits. That's a pretty short period of time to publicly accuse someone of ignoring you while you died.

It's also best to leave these things to Staff support tickets. Top right of the screen. Support.


If you are out somewhere and expecting trouble, and you can't respond within 2-3 hits when there isn't a wall of spam, you need to not be playing a combat character. Or at least just type 'kill thing' in that span of 6 attacks, nevermind the rescue.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:07 am

Matt wrote:Next time set pacifist, flee, and then come back. Your 'afk' friend will now be the one with the aggro. Tada, you were 'rescued'.


Yeah, learned my lesson. Ask for a rescue and then type flee. If they rescue you, great, if they don't, also great.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby tehkory » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:12 am

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:
tehkory wrote:
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Admittedly, I died surprisingly quick, but in the span of the 6-7 attacks the mob got, the person with me just stood there and didn't even join combat, let alone try to rescue me like I asked as soon as the fight started (first hit was a bleeder).

Regardless, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. (If you couldn't tell.)

If you're saying what it reads like you're saying, you died in 6-7 hits. That's a pretty short period of time to publicly accuse someone of ignoring you while you died.

It's also best to leave these things to Staff support tickets. Top right of the screen. Support.


If you are out somewhere and expecting trouble, and you can't respond within 2-3 hits when there isn't a wall of spam, you need to not be playing a combat character. Or at least just type 'kill thing' in that span of 6 attacks, nevermind the rescue.



Absolutely. But that's also different from accusations of banworthy OOC misanthropy in a public forum. Best save that for support tickets.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Songweaver » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:26 am

No ROE. Ever again.

Let the admins be the ones who determine the validity and quality of a scene in question, and deal consequences if need-be. If you believe a player acted poorly, then submit that to the admins and allow them to sort it all out. Your point-of-view, remember, is but one.

No ROE. No "PVP Roleplay Guidelines". PVP is not a black&white issue, folks. It's incredibly specific to the situation.

For instance, someone who is hidden and mugs someone walking down a back alleyway cannot emote before the attack, obviously. They can however use 'think' and 'feel', and you can't see that. An archer shooting you from two rooms away can't interact with you at all. And if I'm trying to escape a band of five orcs who have two archers shooting at me, should I stop to roleplay with their groupleader who is throwing out basic emotes before I run away? And who says what an appropriate amount of roleplay is? Jme? Me? Krelm?

No. No, no, no. Each situation is entirely different.

Just do your best with what the situation gives you and let the admins sort out the nonsense.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:08 pm

I'm going to go ahead and side with all the best combat RPers in the game that have posted negatively here about RoE.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby wilesly » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:29 pm

Having lead the Batts through the end days of Ithilien and the various incarnations of ROE that existed there ... All I have to say in regards to ROE:

ROE. Not even once.
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes."
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby hobbitboots » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:02 pm

I still think it would be useful to newbies (or even oldbies!) if there was a document on the wiki to give pointers on how to make a PvP scene come alive. Not rules on how things must be done, but some general tips that can be useful to keep in mind to make a good scene. Off the top of my head:

When you kill your enemy, you win. When the story is good, everyone wins.

Although dangerous, letting your enemies live to fight another day lets the story continue. Killing them ends the chapter, but sometimes makes the most sense.

Remember that outdoor rooms are usually quite big. Keep that in mind as you begin your attack.

Do unto others: give your enemy a memorable death because you'd like one, too!
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Pallando » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:59 pm

Good feedback so far, thanks folks!

I do think new players can benefit from some kind of information - not rules - but probably something closer to guidelines or suggestions.

I've played and adminned here for over 10 years, and RoE has always been a controversial topic - the bottom line is that we won't please everyone.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Jme » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:45 pm

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:I am still really peeved about something that happened a few days ago, so gonna vent here as it is mildly related.

Going out with somebody and then pretending to be afk when an aggro mob walks in and attacks the person you're with, so you can rob them when they die is not cool. I don't care if you have good IC reasons for wanting them dead, you better emote standing there and doing nothing then, otherwise you're just abusing and taking advantage of the other player OOCly in a really doucherrific way.


That is really lame, they should at the very least emote that they're not helping you.
Have a Jmetastic day.

SOI CHARACTER APPRECIATION THREAD:
http://www.middle-earth.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1131&p=13525
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Jme » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:45 pm

Oh and I'm going to write a guide to PvP RP etiquette, give me time to get a draft up and running and we'll all contribute/add to it :)
Have a Jmetastic day.

SOI CHARACTER APPRECIATION THREAD:
http://www.middle-earth.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1131&p=13525
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby BoogtehWoog » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:47 pm

Jme wrote:Oh and I'm going to write a guide to PvP RP etiquette, give me time to get a draft up and running and we'll all contribute/add to it :)


That would be good, sir. I look forward to it. While I am against an ROE wholeheartedly, I do think we should all aspire to achieve high standards of conduct and roleplaying excellence. A guide to that effect would be great to have around.
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Re: ROE and YOU

Postby Jme » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:56 pm

http://www.middle-earth.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1089

Making a combat RP etiquette board post, you're all warmly welcomed to come and debate the great debate!
Have a Jmetastic day.

SOI CHARACTER APPRECIATION THREAD:
http://www.middle-earth.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1131&p=13525
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