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Possibilities for chatting between players?

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Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:05 pm

In the other RPI game I tried, I often saw gatherings of characters that were little or nothing more than chat rooms for the players, wrapped very thinly, if at all, in the game world setting, and punctuated with scattered token IC emotes.

Does that happen here sometimes, in the Ironwood Inn for example? Are there any provisions for players to chat with each other when they want to, without doing it in the game world, and without having to install and learn to use some other application?
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby BoogtehWoog » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:06 pm

The Guest Lounge in the game. Log in and select option 2.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:11 pm

BoogtehWoog, thank you!

I should have also specified, without going out of the game world. Can a player be in the game world, and in the Guest Lounge, at the same time?

ETA: What I'm thinking is that players *will* chat with each other, while they're playing. If they don't have any other way to do it, they'll do it through their characters, impoverishing the RP.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby BoogtehWoog » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:16 pm

No, you cannot, good sir. And OOC usage in the game is to be minimized as much as possible and absolutely not for idle chatter. Also, if people are engaging in OOC chatter by IC means, then they are in breach of the rules.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby Songweaver » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:31 pm

It's all about immersion. It may not break your immersion to chat with other players in an OOC fashion within the game, but it would break many others'. On Atonement, I loaded a website chat client and found that to be a nice addition for folks who wanted to chat and play at the same time.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby radioactivejesus » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:36 pm

Songweaver wrote:It's all about immersion. It may not break your immersion to chat with other players in an OOC fashion within the game, but it would break many others'. On Atonement, I loaded a website chat client and found that to be a nice addition for folks who wanted to chat and play at the same time.

agreed. The online chat client on atonement was pretty nice and I'd love to see something like that brought to SOI so I can chat it up with my fellow nerds
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby BoogtehWoog » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:38 pm

I cannot say I am overly fond of that idea. There are enough distractions in life to pull one away from focusing on IC events to bring in a chat service to further distract. I can understand why people would like to converse with other players OOCly, but as it stands we have a forum and a guest lounge to accommodate this.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:51 pm

Songweaver, radioactivejesus, thank you! Those are the kinds of ideas I was looking for.

BoogtehWoog, I agree, I think that players chatting with each other while they're playing impoverishes the RP, regardless of how they do it. All the same, they *will* do it sometimes whether we like it or not, and I'm looking for ways for them to do it that detract the least from the RP.

ETA:
Players sometimes chat with each other without realizing it, and sometimes even without anyone else realizing it, because the chatting is transmitted in RP packets. Even though no one realizes what's happening, it still impoverishes the RP for everyone exposed to it. Even if people do it knowingly, as long as it's wrapped in RP packets, there's little if anything administrators can do about it, without the risk of penalizing people who are actually role-playing.

Rather than stigmatizing game-time chat between players, and trying to repress it, thus driving it into everyones subconscious, I would rather have it out in the open, and embrace it, and find ways for them to do it that detract the least from the RP.

As I see it, all things considered, the RP will suffer less if the players have an easy way to chat with each other, while they're playing but outside of the game world, rather than if the easiest way is to do it through their characters, packaging their chat in RP protocol.

If there is no easy way for players to chat, while they're playing but outside of the game world, then players who want to chat will gather together somewhere in the game world, an inn for example, or worse, anywhere that suits them, which I don't see as the best solution for anyone. Having to package the chat in RP protocol is too confining for people who want to chat while they're playing, and it effectively removes that location from the game world, for some other people.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby EltanimRas » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:20 am

While a web chat may have its uses -- say, for players whose PCs are idling alone & waiting for RP partners ...

Overall I'd say this is akin to joining an improv theater group and asking how you can engage in off-topic chat with the other members during performances.

It's not really in the spirit of the enterprise.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jdidds » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:11 am

Personal preference, and because I'm a miserable anti-social bugger. OOC contact with other players ruins the game since most people really have a problem with keeping secrets and blabbing to everyone about who did what, who is who and who is the uber longsword king of people town. Ruin the surprise of your character finding out IG for themselves.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby soiacc » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:21 am

Noone is saying you'd have to chat while playing the game. I don't think I ever did, or I'd have the chat on in the background and check occasionally. Sometimes people can't play, but they have a little time to chat and they can check in and shoot the breeze. It was a great place for new players to ask questions and people to check in to see if the mud really did crash or to gather after big events like the end of alpha.
It's nice to be able to talk to people about this addic...er hobby of ours that other people sometimes don't get (where's the pictures? how do you win?) and also to hear about people's random lives from all over the world. I don't think there were too many issues. There were moderators to check any sort of shenanigans and we, the players, were pretty good at policing ourselves about the ooc sharing.

ETA:This forum is a type of approved ooc sharing, isn't it? A chat room would be the exact same type of thing, except the posts would be faster.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby EltanimRas » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:33 am

soiacc wrote:Noone is saying you'd have to chat while playing the game.

Not "have to", but "want to":

jimhabegger wrote:I should have also specified, without going out of the game world. Can a player be in the game world, and in the Guest Lounge, at the same time?

Otherwise, I'm in intermittent email or PM contact with a handful of players, not counting the one I'm married to. I've always found the public forums far more problematic in terms of IC/OOC spoilers.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:32 pm

This seems obvious to me now. I answered my own question, from the very first time I posted. If someone wants to socialize with other players, while he's in the game world, he can do it in the OOC Chatter forum. I can't imagine anything easier than that.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby EltanimRas » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:43 pm

jimhabegger wrote:If someone wants to socialize with other players, while he's in the game world, he can do it in the OOC Chatter forum.

This choice does have the upside of only giving you one wildly scrolling screen to deal with. ;)
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby Eugene » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:26 am

Permissiveness towards OOC chat is a recipe for disaster on any serious roleplaying community.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby tehkory » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:16 pm

Eugene wrote:Permissiveness towards OOC chat is a recipe for disaster on any serious roleplaying community.

I've honestly seen as good of roleplay on Haven as I ever did on any other RPI, for all Haven's flaws(there are many). And Haven has an OOC newbie channel(questions only please), an OOC mentor system, as well as 2 other(restricted to contributing(bugfinding or playing) players) channels, as well as an OOC tell system. Though all of the OOC channels are opt-in, save mentor.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:35 pm

The reason I was asking about this is because I thought if players had an easy way to socialize with each other, outside of the game, they might not do it so much in the game world. I'm having doubts about that now. but in any case it looks to me like SoI players do have an easy way to socialize with each other outside of the game.

What I'm talking about is players taking their characters somewhere, to socialize with each other, as players. It might be an inn, or any other place where players can find IC excuses for their characters to be gathered together. What I mean by that is that even if they're chatting in whispers, or wrapping their chatting in RP protocol, it's still the players who are socializing with each other, and not the characters. Otherwise, those characters would not be doing what they're doing, and some of them would not even be there.

Most people don't seem to even see it happening, but it impoverishes the RP for me, and effectively removes that location from the the game world for my purposes.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby Hazgarn » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:41 pm

jimhabegger wrote:What I'm talking about is players taking their characters somewhere, to socialize with each other, as players. It might be an inn, or any other place where players can find IC excuses for their characters to be gathered together. What I mean by that is that even if they're chatting in whispers, or wrapping their chatting in RP protocol, it's still the players who are socializing with each other, and not the characters. Otherwise, those characters would not be doing what they're doing, and some of them would not even be there.

Most people don't seem to even see it happening, but it impoverishes the RP for me, and effectively removes that location from the the game world for my purposes.

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about here, possibly because I've never seen it. If you mean something like "a rangy fella" and "a buxom lass" going off in a corner of an IC inn and chatting about Jersey Shore, that will never, ever, ever, ever, happen on here, and if you see it happen you're entirely within your rights to report those players to the admins.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:05 pm

I could be horribly mistaken, but I'm guessing he's just less-than-enthused about Bar-RP which with a lot of the 'social' players, can and does frequently just look like a 'meet hot singles!' chatroom. Or the occasional thing like somebody going 'the way arrows are made is kind of retarded' to explain problems with fletching IC.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:28 pm

ETA:
I posted this before I saw RiderOnTheStorm's post, just above. This post is a response to Hazgarn's last post before this.
(end edit)

No, what I'm talking about is all wrapped in IC conversation and emotes. For example they might be talking about a recent encounter with orcs, or about their crafting, or about anything else their character might have done or be doing. Even so, no matter how much it is decorated with IC emotes, it is still the players who are chatting with each other, with little or no thought for how realistic it is for their characters to be having that conversation, or even for them to be in that place, at that time.

That's how it looks and feels to me. Of course I don't know what the players are actually thinking, so it might be all in my imagination. Or I might be projecting. Actually, now that I think about it, when I saw this happening, it was in a place where I wanted to be, with nothing but ad hoc excuses for my character to be in that place, at that time.
Last edited by jimhabegger on Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:30 pm

RiderOnTheStorm, exactly! I posted my previous reply before I saw yours.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby Rivean » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:50 pm

jimhabegger wrote:No, what I'm talking about is all wrapped in IC conversation and emotes. For example they might be talking about a recent encounter with orcs, or about their crafting, or about anything else their character might have done or be doing. Even so, no matter how much it is decorated with IC emotes, it is still the players who are chatting with each other, with little or no thought for how realistic it is for their characters to be having that conversation, or even for them to be in that place, at that time.


What could possibly be unrealistic about people talking about an orc raid in the tavern?
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby jimhabegger » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:39 pm

Rivean, I'm not sure you meant that seriously, but I'm not sure you didn't, so I'll explain.

Plausible examples of conversations between human characters, about an encounter with orcs:
"I'm glad you saw that one sneaking up behind me."
"I didn't expect to find them so close to home."

Hypothetical examples of possible player-to-player chatting, about the same encounter:
"Man, they still haven't got these arrows working right."
"Whoa, dude, how's that for some skill up?"
"I'm glad I made it in here tonight for that one!"

ETA:
Those are not actual examples of what I saw, and they're more extreme and more obvious than what I saw. I'm just trying to convey how some of the conversation looks and feels to me.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby Rivean » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:04 am

What you're talking about is the MANNER in which things could be talked about - not WHETHER OR NOT they ought to be talked about at all.

And in so far as that goes, there are uncounted ways in which one could RP conversations of any sort poorly (particularly those pertaining to combat) - but that does not mean in any way that it is unrealistic for the discussions to take place at all, and what you seem to be advocating in your earlier post is that we attempt to minimize social RP, instead of, as makes more sense to me, attempting to improve the quality of said RP.

I do not believe that having a chat function enabled will alleviate this problem because I feel that people who are having obviously OOC conversations (usually about the code) fall into two general categories:

a) They're newbies, don't know any better.
b) They're imbeciles.

In the first case, they shall improve over time - and might I say, they will improve by participating in IC conversations and seeing more experienced players handle things in an IC fashion.

In the second case, there is no help for it and they must be borne with as much patience as can be mustered.

In either case, attempting to reduce social RP by means of an OOC chat room will not work to improve the quality of the RP.
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Re: Possibilities for chatting between players?

Postby Rivean » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:14 am

jimhabegger wrote:Those are not actual examples of what I saw, and they're more extreme and more obvious than what I saw. I'm just trying to convey how some of the conversation looks and feels to me.


Also, this: If there is one sure fire way to offend people on an RPI forum, it is to criticize their RP, and suggest that they've got a lot of OOC going on.

Unless you're absolutely certain that something worthy of censure is being done, I'd advise you to not air musings of that particular nature and certainly not to the extent of advocating design policy to affect things based on your suspicions.
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