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Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby soiacc » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:35 am

/\Favorite post ever.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby kestrel » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:49 am

I think people who know their way around the code and setting will grind successfully even without any sort of OOC contact. That stuff is really peripheral and has little to do with the core topic.

Would I love to see a way to hard-code "practice" for PCs when the characters aren't logged in, such that eventually even characters that rarely get logged in but are long-lived reach modest skill levels (like Familiar)? Absolutely. It would make some players feel less like they were on a ferret's wheel and spend more time doing what their character would naturally do. And yes, it would be helpful to off-peak and occasional players. But even then you're going to see grinders get there faster and achieve in-game positions through OOC prioritizing. And in the end that's okay. That's life.

There may be things from a game development perspective that help alleviate it in part, but I'm not sure how feasible any of them would be even in an ALPHA. The good news is that it -is- an ALPHA, and we can try all sorts of things and keep what works and happily discard what doesn't.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby sod » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:43 pm

As far as I can tell, the superfriends thing originated from some kind of paranoia about a nebulous group of players with RPP, who were accused of collaborating OOCly to get more awesome.

I'm still just stuck on this being some kind of underdog complex. A lot of it is in false perception of just how awesome or favored a player is. It comes down to this: a lot of people are seriously just fudging it, as Kestrel gave examples for above. It's the perception of being ill done by, by staff favoritism giving players RPP, all the way to imagined alliances.

In the end, the superfriends thing is just dumb as hell. Play the game, do your best. Those people are probably just doing the same. And if there's room for serious complaint, take it to staff and they'll sort it out.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby someguy » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:46 pm

Let's drop the Caolofan lingo and just call them cliques. They can be inclusive or exclusive, IC or OOC. Now, you know the playbook of a "successful" clique of yore. If you want to form your own and have massive amounts of RL time (the true key to success) form your own Utterby Ungroup, battle the evil cliques for the dubious distinction of Mud Master.

I haven't seen as much friendzone, exclusive clique hoarding in this game as in Old SoI or Alpha/Beta. Most of the leader-clique has been inclusive so far and not doing much better than Joe Blow off the street.

Since the game has NPC leaders on both sides they should (through admins) be more willing to crush favorite players who suck, killing or firing them if the game stagnates under them for months at a time.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby LuckyV » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:50 pm

Thanks, soiacc.

Kestrel, yes ooc stuff is peripheral, but when it's there it really is a huge boost.

Sod, I guess you haven't read the posts.

Someguy, what?
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby sod » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:57 pm

I think you're using a term that has a history that doesn't seem to line up with how you're using it. It's still derogatory, and I still think it's mostly imaginary.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby someguy » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:00 pm

Without massive amounts of time, you won't be able to compete with those who have it. Don't try and find your own niche.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby kestrel » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:08 pm

LuckyV wrote:Kestrel, yes ooc stuff is peripheral, but when it's there it really is a huge boost.


I guess I don't know because I don't do the OOC thing (says everybody), but in most game environments I have trouble seeing how it makes much difference.

Old SOI's Mordor was an exception. Having OOC buddies that you OOCly -know- will help you was probably worth a heck of a lot more than nice skills or gear. I haven't played in the Orkish sphere yet so I can't speak to that, but in Utterby it's not like that at all. The environment is too safe, there are too many ways to grind that don't put you in conflict with other PCs, and I'd point to the same thing someguy does: putting ludicrous amounts of time into your PC is the single most effective way to make them codedly (and possibly socially) powerful.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby tehkory » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:19 pm

sod wrote:I think you're using a term that has a history that doesn't seem to line up with how you're using it. It's still derogatory, and I still think it's mostly imaginary.


LuckyV wrote:Thanks, soiacc.

Kestrel, yes ooc stuff is peripheral, but when it's there it really is a huge boost.

Sod, I guess you haven't read the posts.

Someguy, what?


Warning: Sarcasm ahead.

Hi, I'm Kory and I'm a Superfriend. It's been a year and six months since my last superfriend.

Hullo, Kory.


It's hard. It's real hard, not taking all my RPP and all my OOC contacts and making a superfriend.

Preach it, brother.


But here's the thing: right now, I've got a great PC. I log in, I do things, I emote, and I haven't thought about my last superfriend in forever. Despite all the people clamoring for me to rule the MUD like Elias come again, I've only sparred once. And I don't even have weaponskills or styles! We can do it. Superfriends-in-recovery, ho!

Sarcasm deactivated.

One: Hi! I was a head superfriend over on Atonement. If I may:

Someguy is saying the key to 'success' as you describe it is pretty easy to understand and pretty easy to identify, and relatively easy to grasp.

Not, if I may, what made every superfriend group a superfriend was the same thing: an inequal playing field that was unable to be bridged in any way. In the case of Atonement, attributes were give 4 extra points. The PCs, other than that, had achievable levels of skills. Most of the PCs didn't even -get- those two extra points. They had two or three instead. In one extremely rare case, a PC ended up with equipment that other PCs could never achieve(that was mine, and it happened over 160 days of playtime).

In SoI-That-Was, it was statboosts, equipment, skills, and power(combination of statboosts and skillboosts), all massively unachievable to any 0RPP PC. And they combined every single one of these bonuses.

Neither of these things exist in SoI-as-is, though Atonement-style may come into play, with both statboosts and perhaps equipment. And the funny thing about both of these superfriends is that they're utterly Staff-regulated when it comes to who may get them.

And none of them exist IG currently.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby krelm » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:30 pm

So, do people want to see superfriends in SoI, or is this just a massive derail?
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby LuckyV » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:50 pm

Massive derail.

I wanted to say that making the game harsh and focusing on squalor just so superfriends do not arise, is not a good move, imho.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby EltanimRas » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:59 pm

kestrel wrote:I guess I don't know because I don't do the OOC thing (says everybody), but in most game environments I have trouble seeing how it makes much difference.

Now, isn't that a thought experiment! Re-run the entirety of your in-game SoI career, with neither you nor anyone else having any idea who's playing who.

I think these influences sneak up on us. ;)
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Songweaver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:01 pm

So long as the vast majority of the equipment available (99.5% of it or more) is entirely craftable and standardized, this shouldn't be an issue. There will be cliques. There will be various factions. You can see this already within both spheres. It's not a bad thing if it provides interesting IC conflict.

Old SOI had an equipment problem, in a big way. I say that having played a character that went from commoner to Knighthood, from field-medic to master combat stat full steel-plated, wielding a two-handed magical greatsword badass that could take on trolls by himself. That happened because I knew how to play the game, roleplay-wise, socially and combatantly.

It's not a bad thing. But it went too far in old SOI. There weren't too many magical weapons (IMO), but it was the abundance of steel plate unavailable to lower RPP characters (or players without the time or knowledge to acquire such armor) that caused the issues.

On Atonement, I can't speak to the problem. When I ran the game, no one, no matter how powerful, was safe. And because of that, there -were- heroes.

I like heroes. There's a middle-ground here, and at the base of it is a lesson: make players craft their own armor and weapons, and make any "special" items weapons (not armor) and very, very rare.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby kestrel » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:03 am

EltanimRas wrote:
kestrel wrote:I guess I don't know because I don't do the OOC thing (says everybody), but in most game environments I have trouble seeing how it makes much difference.

Now, isn't that a thought experiment! Re-run the entirety of your in-game SoI career, with neither you nor anyone else having any idea who's playing who.

I think these influences sneak up on us. ;)


Oh, absolutely. I think many of my PCs would have ended up differently if I hadn't gained OOC connections. And it's typically the opposite of what's been mentioned in this thread; I've encountered a PC I've had great fun with and somehow ended up forming an OOC connection with the player after the characters are gone. But it's hard not to recognize a friend's RP style sometimes, and I suspect that's bled into in-game choices more often than I'd comfortably admit.

But as far as combat skills, which is what the poster was largely referring to? I'd have to disagree with you there. Some of the PCs might have turned out differently, but their skills would have risen (or not) much the same either way.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby kestrel » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:11 am

And I'm derailing. Sorry, sorry!

On topic, the CAMP command's echoes are still from PRPI. And I'm sure a dozen other people have already mentioned it on the forum, but it's all I can think of to get the train back on its tracks.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:34 am

Rivean wrote:45 minutes to an hour? RL time? That's insane. I would go apeshit if my PC were in a clan where this sort of thing happened on a regular basis.

ETA: Back in ye olde time, 1 hour of sparring meant your PC was fighting for 4 hours IG time. Presumably in armor. The very idea causes my skin to blister.



Does it? Don't get me wrong, I don't support ridiculous sparring times and really doubt they exist based on the two sparring sessions I've been in. Neither lasted more than about 10-15 seconds because someone gets their head cracked open or something similar. I just wanted to chime in on the oft-repeated and seemingly unrealistic belief that people can't spar that long. It makes me wonder if they've never sparred irl, whether with weapons or hand to hand. I used to spend entire afternoons beating my friends with wooden swords. It's fun and time flies. Ever been to an SCA fighter practice? Just saying.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby someguy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:00 am

Food should be more filling.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Stoneturtle » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:02 am

krelm wrote:So, do people want to see superfriends in SoI, or is this just a massive derail?

My post didn't seem to make it...trying again.

Please no. The superfriends thing is why I left Atonement. I'm not the only one. I don't think we'll see that particular coming together of situations that made that unplayable happen here though. It wasn't just the players after all. It was staff and the circumstances at that moment of the game altogether. I can't see it happening here.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby soiacc » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:30 pm

I would like to be able to move furniture. Not being able to move tables and benches is frustrating.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby tehkory » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:10 pm

Stoneturtle wrote:
krelm wrote:So, do people want to see superfriends in SoI, or is this just a massive derail?

My post didn't seem to make it...trying again.

Please no. The superfriends thing is why I left Atonement. I'm not the only one. I don't think we'll see that particular coming together of situations that made that unplayable happen here though. It wasn't just the players after all. It was staff and the circumstances at that moment of the game altogether. I can't see it happening here.


Superfriends don't really exist as an issue like people imagine they do. They're a bogeyman, and a rather proven false one.


That said...If you left -Atonement- over 'superfriends,' which were +4 stat sum PCs with slight, achievable boosts, I don't know how you ever played with SoI's 'superfriends,' which had likely triple that in stat boosts, and unachievable skill -and- equipment boosts. And you certainly weren't around for Power.

'Superfriends' as the nameless bogeyman people like to blame will exist in in SoI. Staff have confirmed they intend to give RPP-players access to the same style PCs. Be aware of that. It's even more sensible in SoI than in Atonement that 'superfriends' exist, too.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Rivean » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:13 pm

This nonsense really ought to stop. Yes, a 9 RPP Noldor elf is going to be able to kick your ass butt naked AND he's probably got equipment that will make you drool. Get. Over. It.

ETA: And in case you're wondering - My RPP count in SOI2 allowed me to play any race short of a Noldor. The most I ever spent on races/roles was 4 RPP for a GD and guess what? That PC did not even own a weapon.

People with enough RPP to make super friends are not creating characters simply to get into pissing contests with your PCs over who can hit harder.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Nyneve » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:30 pm

+1 to more filling food

+1 to RP lowering cooldown timers

+1 to more magics

+1000 to more lore.
Seriously. I've read a shameful amount of Tolkien. When I don't have lore, I make up my own. (See: use Tolkien-lore or Tolkien-inspired lore that he probably wouldn't disagree with, in my opinion) That isn't a problem until staff comes in and decides to set lore. Suddenly, it's like my PC has been lying or wrong about everything ever if these lores don't line up.

So this is my plea to staff: If you're too swamped to write lore, let me write lore. Please. I literally would love to do it.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Mithrandur » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Songweaver wrote: but it was the abundance of steel plate unavailable to lower RPP characters (or players without the time or knowledge to acquire such armor) that caused the issues.



And I regret making every set of steel armor too. Piles and piles of gold gave little comfort when it trivialized the game.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby WildGiller » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:12 pm

Nyneve wrote:+1 to more filling food
+1 to RP lowering cooldown timers
+1 to more magics
+1000 to more lore.


All of the above.

Also.
I would squeal like a little school girl if we could get some wizardly stuff going on.. Dreams and magic and omfgwhatisthatinthesky a dragon?! save me! shock. terror. whee.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Hazgarn » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:21 pm

WildGiller wrote:Dreams and magic and omfgwhatisthatinthesky a dragon?! save me! shock. terror. whee.


If you ever have to do a pwipe, make it Smaug. Just, please.
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