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Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby EltanimRas » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:36 pm

Fulgrim wrote:if the orc sphere remains where it is and the human sphere shifts in entirety to Laketown

This made me imagine Utterby's departed human PCs replaced by AI human woodcutters, hunters, etc. -- who exist solely for the amusement of the PC orcs. :shock:
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Bogre » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:41 pm

Or a burnt shell of a town...
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Fulgrim » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:00 pm

Bogre wrote:Or a burnt shell of a town...


Most likely this. Maybe.
(Morgoth):
I had a part in everything.
Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed.
I left ruin behind me when I returned.
But I also carried ruin with me.
She, the mistress of her own lust.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Rivean » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:06 pm

Fulgrim wrote:
Bogre wrote:Or a burnt shell of a town...


Most likely this. Maybe.


You would, friggin orc admins.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Gobbo » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:35 pm

The alternate settings suggested are amazing but will never happen unfortunately. I dont particularly like the laketown setting.

That being said I feel the flavor of Tolkien vs atonement. The cold winters, the lotr gear, the trolls in the forest etc. The code and obsessive combat for hides is exactly the same as atonement but thats it.

Seriously its pretty much a joke how many wolf hides we can rake in with no effort. Meat is so plentiful in the middle of winter and no one is going to go hungry.

The economy is focused on armor and weapons because that is all there is, once we have the basic crafts for clothing, farming, etc. We will have plenty of luxary based crafting and gameplay. I really feel like giving all the craft sets at least SOME crafts to get started should be a priority. Im not happy about sitting on a useless farming skill.

As for pvp, honestly there is two options I believe to make the pvp less about killing and more about competition.
1. Mini fort(s) that give resources when kept garrisoned, it kinda worked in old soi but i think it needs better implementation.
2. Caravans, I believe the guard should be tasked with escorting wagon loads of PC filled logs and hides. So basically you fill the wagon with 20 logs and then you have to take the wagon to a location somewhere in the wilderness at a specific time. If successful you then get money for those logs, this should be the only way to get money from out of utterby into town, exporting resources. However these caravans should be predictable based on the fact they have to go at certain times, orcs should be able to steal all the goods inside and chase off the PC humans trying to transport them.

This creates an interesting dynamic of supply lines, utterby needs to export for currency, your loggers supply the logs or other materials, the guard transport it, they split the profit and everyone gets currency. Or the orcs raid supply lines and get these resources for their own uses.

I simply dont like the idea of people selling logs, hides and other goods that are really easy to get to NPCS for mound of coin.

Under this caravan system PCs from both spheres will have conflict, also PCs within utterby will have to do business with each other to see to it that goods are exported (as per the theme) and money is brought back and given for all services rendered.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Fulgrim » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:44 pm

Caravans are probably going to be implemented, or some system regarding goods and guarding them at anyrate, yes.

And mini-forts have been discussed and will probably be approached sometime in the future. Not likely in Alpha, but if such an extensive system was developed, we'd love to have it in Open or Beta.
(Morgoth):
I had a part in everything.
Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed.
I left ruin behind me when I returned.
But I also carried ruin with me.
She, the mistress of her own lust.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby bjg2k1us » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:05 pm

Adding something to fight over helps, or it may help orcs, anyways. Spiders and Wargs? They aren't going to be terribly interested in caravans and strongholds, they just want to eat you. Elves and Dwarves aren't going to have any different motivations than Humans do now when they run into the 'bad guys'.

And that is the central problem, there's no reason for these conflicts to end in anything but slaughter when they do happen. The two sides are written so as to preclude much of anything else. Putting some extra distance in between might make these events a bit less frequent, but it doesn't make them any better. Caravans and forts might occasionally make a commander say 'better not chase them any farther, we've got an X to protect', but at the end of the day, you've got two sides with nothing to do besides kill each other if and when they happen to meet.

And staff must think that's a problem for the longevity of the game, if they're offering up something like Mercy. That's all I was really addressing here - the fact that a theme like Mirkwood/Laketown, if you let cross-sphere PvP exist, means you're going to have to come up with convoluted and unthematic methods of keeping conflict from turning into mere player-killing.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Fulgrim » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:16 pm

I really don't like, personally, how deeply and emphatically players are turned away from player killing in general. There's context and there's circumstances, sure, if someone's being an asshole you can call them out on it and we can make sure they aren't rewarded for twinking out every encounter, but to say "PVP that ends in death is bad!" Seems kind of trite at this point. If it infrequently happens, then it's a brutal reminder that Mirkwood and it's denizens aren't a forgiving place/inhabitants, or a brutal reminder for those denizens that the forces of good are well trained, well oiled and well armed and willing to fight back at the evil.

People die, people lose characters, and sometimes there's meaning behind those deaths. Early on in Alpha one of the first larger scale PVP events occurred and many PCs were spared at the end of the pRPT, if any of you recall.

Good play will happen as often as bad play, and it isn't hard to justify leaving an unconscious person be by assuming they're simply dead.
(Morgoth):
I had a part in everything.
Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed.
I left ruin behind me when I returned.
But I also carried ruin with me.
She, the mistress of her own lust.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby bjg2k1us » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:58 pm

Uh, no one's saying player killing is always a bad thing. But when staff are adding OOC commands for the following stated purposes:


1. Help players avoid twinky pk's.
2. Encourage more pvp by removing some of the brutality.
3. Avoid clan wipes.
4. Allow players an extra level of protection for their beloved chars.


... then it isn't brain surgery to infer that you all aren't really happy with the way these scenes are more often than not playing out.


All I'm saying is that when you combine a Black vs White theme with a player vs player setting, you're going to have to resort to these kinds of unwanted and unimmersive tactics just to keep the body count down. If you could truly rely on players to do it, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Until you address either the underlying theme or the setting that puts players and their PCs on both sides of it, this is what you'll get.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby Fulgrim » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:09 pm

Nothing is unanimous when it comes to staff decisions. It's all about what works out the most, and what two out of three of the Elder Staff can agree upon. That's all I'll say on the subject.
(Morgoth):
I had a part in everything.
Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed.
I left ruin behind me when I returned.
But I also carried ruin with me.
She, the mistress of her own lust.
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Re: Problems with Lake-Town, and Alternative Settings

Postby bjg2k1us » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:26 pm

Fair 'nuff ;)
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