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So many Wargs.

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So many Wargs.

Postby Matt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:55 pm

I've regularly seen 12+ wargs hanging out across the river south of Utterby together. This seems like a pretty insane number.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Icarus » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:15 pm

South of the river is the hardest part of our game world
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Matt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:19 pm

Oh OK... is there a reason that it's the hardest area?
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrT2G » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:22 pm

Matt wrote:Oh OK... is there a reason that it's the hardest area?


Yes.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Icarus » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:23 pm

Thar be iron there. The source of your lifeblood.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Jeshin » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:25 pm

I thought that was trees! I'm so confused. 8-)
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby krelm » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:28 pm

Problem: There are a shitload of wargs.

Solution: Kill them all.

Edit:

Though, I would like to add, the larger that progs/morph timers let warg packs get, the more chance there is for players to form the dreaded "supergroups" to get rid of said wargs, or to otherwise snipe them from across the river.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby tehkory » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:46 pm

krelm wrote:snipe them from across the river.


This, especially, is obnoxious, and I wish there were Staff around to set the wargs on players doing that, or that Staff would just move a dozen or so wargs across the river given that it's happening =X.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby krelm » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:48 pm

tehkory wrote:
krelm wrote:snipe them from across the river.


This, especially, is obnoxious, and I wish there were Staff around to set the wargs on players doing that, or that Staff would just move a dozen or so wargs across the river given that it's happening =X.


My initial plan was to make the river 4 rooms wide, but I didn't feel like adding a bunch of rooms on either side to compensate. Maybe I should've been less lazy.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Erythil » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:47 pm

Given the fate of the last supergroup I saw go out, maybe that's not necessary...
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Droll » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:19 pm

Erythil wrote:Given the fate of the last supergroup I saw go out, maybe that's not necessary...


Too soon :lol:
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:13 pm

What's wrong with sniping across the river? Are we an MMO now so we reset mobs if they can't reach you to prevent people from using tactics in combat?
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby tehkory » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:20 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:What's wrong with sniping across the river? Are we an MMO now so we reset mobs if they can't reach you to prevent people from using tactics in combat?

What's wrong with sniping across the river is that these are intelligent creatures, sentient and capable of language. Replace 'warg' with human/goblin and see why it's silly that people are thinning their numbers by shooting over the river. The wargs should be moving to our territory/forests by now.

These aren't -tactics-, used against intelligent opponents. They're cheap twink tricks, with 0 risk unless an Admin decides to animate, or change the game. And it has no place in an RPI.

ETA: And what I mean by this is: shooting an animal with one arrow and expecting it to bleed out is meh, but okay. Shooting intelligent enemies over an over again while they repeatedly die/bleed out? That's not roleplay. That's pure code and silliness, and you should be petitioning up to get animation rather than twinking your skillups.
Last edited by tehkory on Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Real » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:21 pm

Once we get mail armor a dozen wargs will be a good difficulty for the toughest area in the game, maybe Dwarf Watch will be tougher than the bog when/if it opens (:D). The Junkyard comes to mind, it could cause a wipe but there were lots of occasions where well-equipped groups made it through fine.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:32 pm

tehkory wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:What's wrong with sniping across the river? Are we an MMO now so we reset mobs if they can't reach you to prevent people from using tactics in combat?

What's wrong with sniping across the river is that these are intelligent creatures, sentient and capable of language. Replace 'warg' with human/goblin and see why it's silly that people are thinning their numbers by shooting over the river. The wargs should be moving to our territory/forests by now.

These aren't -tactics-, used against intelligent opponents. They're cheap twink tricks, with 0 risk unless an Admin decides to animate, or change the game. And it has no place in an RPI.

ETA: And what I mean by this is: shooting an animal with one arrow and expecting it to bleed out is meh, but okay. Shooting intelligent enemies over an over again while they repeatedly die/bleed out? That's not roleplay. That's pure code and silliness, and you should be petitioning up to get animation rather than twinking your skillups.


What risk would you expect? Maybe the river is too deep and too swift for them to swim to chase the shooters. Why would you expect them to come across the river by walking either? If they're intelligent, they know they are outpowered. Men have walls, and fire and armor.

I think you're just choosing to see this a certain way and deciding your particular opinion is fact.

Sure, they should run away if somebody stands there launching their entire quiver one after another over the river. I've never seen anybody do that though, and when I would snipe over the river, I'd fire until I hit something, then leave it alone. My character saw it as thinning the population so they didn't become too numerous. There's no reason to think that an intelligent being who saw a few arrows peppering their numbers when they got too close to enemy territory would mass and launch a suicidal attack against the walls of a town.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby tehkory » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:36 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:
tehkory wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:What's wrong with sniping across the river? Are we an MMO now so we reset mobs if they can't reach you to prevent people from using tactics in combat?

What's wrong with sniping across the river is that these are intelligent creatures, sentient and capable of language. Replace 'warg' with human/goblin and see why it's silly that people are thinning their numbers by shooting over the river. The wargs should be moving to our territory/forests by now.

These aren't -tactics-, used against intelligent opponents. They're cheap twink tricks, with 0 risk unless an Admin decides to animate, or change the game. And it has no place in an RPI.

ETA: And what I mean by this is: shooting an animal with one arrow and expecting it to bleed out is meh, but okay. Shooting intelligent enemies over an over again while they repeatedly die/bleed out? That's not roleplay. That's pure code and silliness, and you should be petitioning up to get animation rather than twinking your skillups.


What risk would you expect? Maybe the river is too deep and too swift for them to swim to chase the shooters. Why would you expect them to come across the river by walking either? If they're intelligent, they know they are outpowered. Men have walls, and fire and armor.

I think you're just choosing to see this a certain way and deciding your particular opinion is fact.

Sure, they should run away if somebody stands there launching their entire quiver one after another over the river. I've never seen anybody do that though, and when I would snipe over the river, I'd fire until I hit something, then leave it alone. My character saw it as thinning the population so they didn't become too numerous. There's no reason to think that an intelligent being who saw a few arrows peppering their numbers when they got too close to enemy territory would mass and launch a suicidal attack against the walls of a town.


These are men standing on the shore of the river, six+ rooms from their home(quite a significant distance), shooting at twelve+strong wargpacks with more than a handful of arrows, while the bridge to get over the river is only 1-2 rooms away.

And yeah, shocker: the wargs would probably avoid the riverside rooms after that.

ETA:


I think you're just choosing to see this a certain way and deciding your particular opinion is fact.

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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:45 pm

So, it sounds like you have a very specific gripe about a person or specific behavior. There are plenty of places near the city, far from the bridge, from which you can snipe across the river.

However, that's cool. Everyone needs a cause to champion.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby WorkerDrone » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:47 pm

Just set up the far shore rooms on the bog-side to keep mobs out. That means they'll wander around deeper within their territory instead of sliding around the outer edge of it, which actually increases danger because it means people have to embed themselves within the heart of darkness before the level of danger is made clear to them.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Hazgarn » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:47 pm

tehkory wrote:These are men standing on the shore of the river, six+ rooms from their home(quite a significant distance), shooting at twelve+strong wargpacks with more than a handful of arrows, while the bridge to get over the river is only 1-2 rooms away.

And yeah, shocker: the wargs would probably avoid the riverside rooms after that.


Considering that each room outdoors represents about a mile (to my understanding), they might not charge off for that bridge immediately after being shot at... But they're absolutely smart enough to either avoid an area known to be dangerous, or set an ambush in the places those volleys were being staged.

And if people keep doing this, sooner or later someone's probably going to make that happen. :/
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:00 pm

Hazgarn wrote:
tehkory wrote:These are men standing on the shore of the river, six+ rooms from their home(quite a significant distance), shooting at twelve+strong wargpacks with more than a handful of arrows, while the bridge to get over the river is only 1-2 rooms away.

And yeah, shocker: the wargs would probably avoid the riverside rooms after that.


Considering that each room outdoors represents about a mile (to my understanding), they might not charge off for that bridge immediately after being shot at... But they're absolutely smart enough to either avoid an area known to be dangerous, or set an ambush in the places those volleys were being staged.

And if people keep doing this, sooner or later someone's probably going to make that happen. :/


That means we're shooting arrows three miles.. :p
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Droll » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:03 pm

My vote: Anyone who is against firing over the river at the wargs gets to be first man into the room with 14 wargs.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby krelm » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:15 pm

What risk would you expect? Maybe the river is too deep and too swift for them to swim to chase the shooters. Why would you expect them to come across the river by walking either? If they're intelligent, they know they are outpowered. Men have walls, and fire and armor.


If the river is too far and/or deep for a warg-- an animal, who is far more muscular than a human, with exceptionally more stamina-- to swim across, then what about humans/orcs who swim across it on the regular, especially to escape said wildlife? (This is a thing that I've done myself.)

If wargs can't swim across it, should progs be added to make it impossible for humans to cross, as well?

EDIT, IE intelligence:

If a group of humans were getting shot at by a group of orcs, or vice versa, how would either group, as played by PCs, handle the situation? Personally, if I outnumbered the other group, I'd charge across the river (which is 100% codedly swimmable) or, if I was outnumbered, I'd run the hell away.

Herein lies the complaint: Wargs, RPly, are just as intelligent as humans or orcs, and would behave in similar fashions when under attack. But, since they're portrayed by mobs with no artificial intelligence, when they get shot at the only thing they know to do is stand there until they bleed out, when in all reality they would run off or attack.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:30 pm

krelm wrote:
What risk would you expect? Maybe the river is too deep and too swift for them to swim to chase the shooters. Why would you expect them to come across the river by walking either? If they're intelligent, they know they are outpowered. Men have walls, and fire and armor.


If the river is too far and/or deep for a warg-- an animal, who is far more muscular than a human, with exceptionally more stamina-- to swim across, then what about humans/orcs who swim across it on the regular, especially to escape said wildlife? (This is a thing that I've done myself.)

If wargs can't swim across it, should progs be added to make it impossible for humans to cross, as well?

EDIT, IE intelligence:

If a group of humans were getting shot at by a group of orcs, or vice versa, how would either group, as played by PCs, handle the situation? Personally, if I outnumbered the other group, I'd charge across the river (which is 100% codedly swimmable) or, if I was outnumbered, I'd run the hell away.

Herein lies the complaint: Wargs, RPly, are just as intelligent as humans or orcs, and would behave in similar fashions when under attack. But, since they're portrayed by mobs with no artificial intelligence, when they get shot at the only thing they know to do is stand there until they bleed out, when in all reality they would run off or attack.


Muscle and endurance have nothing to do with it. Some animals just aren't built for swimming but yes, it should be made so people aren't swimming it in the places where it specifically mentions it being rapids. There should at least be risk.

As for the rest, if you'd charge at people shooting arrows at you in a rl setting, you've got issues. People hide when they are being shot at, not run a hundred yards into the face of the shooter.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby Jeshin » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:40 pm

Even more advanced AAA title games from major publishers have issues out thinking players who out think NPCs. If you truly believe that there is a game breaking issue that allows people to unfairly deal with threats that are placed in the game world. Sending a support ticket in or finding some way to inform staff of specifically what the issue is will probably lead to it being fixed if they think it's to much.

That being said... It is extremely hard to change player behavior that is beneficial to the survival of a character. You either need to upgrade the NPCs to recognize bow fire and reposition themselves or make it so they are not in a position along the river to be sniped from unless baited there perhaps?

OR

If you want to be super sneaky. Have 1/2 the pack run to the bridge to cross to the other side and begin roaming while the original half stays to be shot at. Leading to 7 wargs devouring said pesky hunter.
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Re: So many Wargs.

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:52 pm

Jeshin wrote:Even more advanced AAA title games from major publishers have issues out thinking players who out think NPCs. If you truly believe that there is a game breaking issue that allows people to unfairly deal with threats that are placed in the game world. Sending a support ticket in or finding some way to inform staff of specifically what the issue is will probably lead to it being fixed if they think it's to much.

That being said... It is extremely hard to change player behavior that is beneficial to the survival of a character. You either need to upgrade the NPCs to recognize bow fire and reposition themselves or make it so they are not in a position along the river to be sniped from unless baited there perhaps?

OR

If you want to be super sneaky. Have 1/2 the pack run to the bridge to cross to the other side and begin roaming while the original half stays to be shot at. Leading to 7 wargs devouring said pesky hunter.


I like the last one. That would be awesome.
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