It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:37 pm
Change font size

General Discussion

Cold/frostbite/insane

Discuss game issues here.

Moderator: Elder Staff

Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Matt » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:17 am

So... I just walked three rooms and this happened.

), a minor discoloration on the left
foot, a minor gray-frostbite on the left knee, a minor waxy-frostbite on the right forearm, a small frostnip on the right eye, a small frostnip on the right hand, a minor black-frostbite on the face, a minor waxy-frostbite on the right hand, a small black-frostbite on the right upper arm, a small frostburn on the
left calf, a small white-frostbite on the groin, a small discoloration on the left elbow, a minor waxy-frostbite on the right elbow, a minor waxy-frostbite on the left eye, and a minor black-frostbite on the groin.

How are we even supposed to play the game when we die if we walk 6 rooms?
Matt
Ent Sapling
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:47 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Fulgrim » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:25 am

This code is obviously brand spanking new, so whoever was responsible for putting it in will try hitting it repeatedly with the Balance Hammer until it works as intended. Pretty sure the same happened with the stamina effecting heat code, too.
(Morgoth):
I had a part in everything.
Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed.
I left ruin behind me when I returned.
But I also carried ruin with me.
She, the mistress of her own lust.
User avatar
Fulgrim
Roleplay Admin
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby tehkory » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:39 am

Fulgrim wrote:This code is obviously brand spanking new, so whoever was responsible for putting it in will try hitting it repeatedly with the Balance Hammer until it works as intended. Pretty sure the same happened with the stamina effecting heat code, too.


Heat affecting stamina makes total sense, no matter what we wear. It triggers on movement, which is intuitive. It only needed adjustment for values.

Cold being impervious to what we wear is frustrating. Cold frostbite damage triggering on movement makes little sense. I think winter weather is best left not imitating summer weather.
tehkory
Master Ent
 
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:21 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby LuckyV » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:13 am

Once again I see that staff has a firm stance on "Harshness > playability/fun"

I wish it weren't so...
LuckyV
Dwarf Recruit
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:43 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Matt » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:18 am

LuckyV wrote:Once again I see that staff has a firm stance on "Harshness > playability/fun"

I wish it weren't so...


I think there's just a decimal point misplaced somewhere.
Matt
Ent Sapling
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:47 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Brian » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:39 am

Haha, now this is the kind of thing that an ALPHA is for, features that need balancing. We're all meat for grinder of balancing features :D
User avatar
Brian
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:56 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Tiamat » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:17 pm

I should've fixed this apart last night given there was a reboot. I guess I'll check in a bit to make sure a swap reboot was done.
Image
User avatar
Tiamat
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Rivean » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:51 pm

This whole winter/summer weather effect problem chain reminds me of a conversation Eltanimras and I had whereby we decided that between the tornadoes, the hurricanes, the earthquakes, and the blizzards, we were fairly certain North America was trying to kill everybody on it :P
User avatar
Rivean
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:53 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Tepes » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:19 pm

I think this kills any want to go outside.
User avatar
Tepes
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:19 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Real » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:29 pm

It makes everyone gather in preparation to go outside in meeting spots until the morning gets less cold instead of disappearing out the gate with staggered timing solo.

Or at least, that's what I think will happen.
Last edited by Real on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Everything gets smaller now the further that I go
Towards the mouth and the reunion of the known and the unknown
Consider yourself lucky if you think of it as home
You can move mountains with your misery if you don't
User avatar
Real
Elf Recruit
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:13 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Tiamat » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:29 pm

The coldest times of the day will be twilight, followed by early morning and at night. The hottest times of day, in winter or summer, is near high noon and early afternoon.

Wearing a thick fur cloak will help mitigate the cold if it gets to below 5 degrees F. You have a 25% chance of getting only half the frostbite damage you'd otherwise get NOT wearing a cloak. Said another way, you only have a 25% chance of getting frost-bite damage while wearing a cloak, and that's half of what you'd otherwise be taking if you didn't have a cloak on. Frostbite only occurs below 5 F, which is most likely to happen at the coldest times said above.
Image
User avatar
Tiamat
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Alcarin » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:58 pm

II want to start out by saying I like the idea of weather code having a reaaonable impact on PC activities. There should definitwly be risk of things like heat stroke and frostbite for the unwary.

My question: can the code be upgraded to lower its risk based on additional clothing items and the presence of fire or even groups in close quarters?

A straight 25 to 50 percent chance of frostbite damage in every room just because it's quite cold might be a bit much.

People in the real world are able to endure such temperature lows without a quarter of them being frostbitten, unless we get into truly extreme circumstances such as taking no precautions and/or pushing the limits of those precautions, and of course, lower temperatures.

One other consideration is that if it did check on room entry to damage pcs, then on average every pc with a cloak will take dammage every four rooms during those very cold periods of time. Not sure if that is the intention, but if so it could very rapidly add up and kill PCs. Id expect a potential death or maim rate so high to be limited to blizzards and other such extremes, normally.
Alcarin
 

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Hawkwind » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:53 pm

I have no intention of belittling the great accomplishments of the hard working staff of this game but I must ask, was this ever a big deal for players? Weather effects have always been one of the best and most commonly roleplayed aspects of the game.
JESUS CHRIST, THE HELIUM!
PS4 Handle - Roadhawkes
Tags Taken: Eru I, Mavinero I.
User avatar
Hawkwind
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:46 am
Location: Volga Matushka

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Brian » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:28 pm

They should adapt this code to people moving with serious wounds!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
User avatar
Brian
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:56 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Alcarin » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:31 pm

Brian wrote:They should adapt this code to people moving with serious wounds!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


But, how would I run 20 miles at 1 star with my entrails hanging out in order to go sleep it off? Playability! :P
Alcarin
 

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby radioactivejesus » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:13 am

I'd like the idea of severe+ wounds to the legs or being under 3 stars hampering your movement speed. If I remember right, old SOI did a similar thing, where if you tried walking too fast your wounds would reopen
A really bad sword with a short blade lies here.
look sword
This sword hardly even a sword. It's kind of really just a piece of metal bent like a sword. Its blade is rather short. Kind of pathetic, really.
User avatar
radioactivejesus
Ent Sapling
 
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:39 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Justanothacivy » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:16 pm

Focus people. The derail is real.

I'm all for fur-lined somethings to reduce chance of frostbite to nil.
Things that made me smile:
Icarus wrote:I'm going to kill the next character I see doing stuff like that. I'm not joking.
User avatar
Justanothacivy
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:37 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Hazgarn » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Do scarves also see an effect in mitigating cold damage? Because it would be awesome if they did.
SOI Mirkwood Map
SOI Wilderlands Map

I am also a Guide. Feel free to contact me through AIM or PM with questions about the game.
User avatar
Hazgarn
Cartographer
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 9:35 am
Location: Sacramento, Ca

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby pinocchio » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:52 pm

1. Open door.
2. Walk outside.
3. Okay, it's cold but normal. Snowing, dark clouds overhead.
4. Look at the clouds.
5. You can't see any clouds; it's snowing too hard!
6. Huh, I guess there's a blinding snowstorm (blizzard), even though I didn't see any echo of it starting.
7. Frostbite damage!
8. Emote staggering back and fumbling for the just-closed door.
9. Frostbite damage!
10. Open door.
11. Flee.


I didn't have a problem with the amount of damage, but:

1. Is there any way to check the weather when you're inside looking out that gives more detailed feedback than 'scan'? If so, what's the syntax?
2. I wish there'd been an echo to tell me when the snow turned blinding. It seems like the sort of thing you'd notice.
3. I'd be happier if the frostbite code gave me a bit more time to emote. I can only imagine how many times it would have triggered if I'd had another player whose reaction emote I'd wanted to wait for before running back inside.
User avatar
pinocchio
Dwarf Recruit
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:23 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Tiamat » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:00 am

pinocchio wrote:1. Open door.
2. Walk outside.
3. Okay, it's cold but normal. Snowing, dark clouds overhead.
4. Look at the clouds.


Don't go outside when forming black clouds are outside.
Image
User avatar
Tiamat
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby pinocchio » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:07 am

Tiamat wrote:Don't go outside when forming black clouds are outside.

I understand that (a) black clouds indicate a blizzard may be imminent and (b) blizzards are hazardous to your health.

I'd still like an echo when the rate of snow and/or wind intensifies to blinding levels. If I hadn't happened to type 'look' just at that moment, I would have assumed my PC could still see just fine, and erroneously continued emoting accordingly.

Edit: Apologies if I'm coming across crankier and less clearly than I mean to; I'm a bit underslept.

What I mean is this: I don't necessarily mind if bad things happen to my PC, especially when we're talking minor frostbite and not, you know, sudden and gruesome death. I just want to be about to roleplay about those bad things when they do happen, which means (a) I need to know they're happening (hence the request for an echo), and (b) it helps if they don't happen faster than I can type.
User avatar
pinocchio
Dwarf Recruit
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:23 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Rivean » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 am

pinocchio wrote:1. Is there any way to check the weather when you're inside looking out that gives more detailed feedback than 'scan'? If so, what's the syntax?


Old SoI used to have 'window' code installed in major public hubs (like inns), where 'look window' which lets you peek outside without scan or echoes. It wasn't a perfect solution but it helped with weather - which is precisely why it was put in in the first place.

pinocchio wrote:2. I wish there'd been an echo to tell me when the snow turned blinding. It seems like the sort of thing you'd notice.


Yes, please.


pinocchio wrote:3. I'd be happier if the frostbite code gave me a bit more time to emote. I can only imagine how many times it would have triggered if I'd had another player whose reaction emote I'd wanted to wait for before running back inside.


This could be addressed by increasing the damage and reducing the frequency.

Tiamat wrote:Don't go outside when forming black clouds are outside.


This would be a slightly more appropriate response if there were some way to actually tell the weather while in doors. Nor is it reasonable to expect people to scan before they exit into any outdoor space.

I'm a fan of the weather code in general principle, Tiamat, but you have to realize that there are several things about it that are not intuitive/realistic, which leads to things happening that players do not expect or are not ready for:

a) As mentioned, information about the changes in temperature is not always as in your face as it would be in real life. There's no way there's going to be a snow or thunderstorm while I'm in my house and I don't find out about it till I open the door and step outside.

b) There seems to be no gradation in temperature at all. You go from perfectly normal to taking damage from frostbite. This is, again, essentially an information problem, and ideally it would be addressed by changes in weather state having more states other than damage and non-damage, and that these weather states echo to the player when the PC exits into a weather room, or when the states change while he or she is already outside.

So for winter you could have cool but pleasant -> chilly -> uncomfortably cold -> freezing cold and risk of frostbite.

c) Frostbite damage is instant. There's no way that you can just step outside into bad weather and instantly suffer frostbite.

[edit]d) If you've got frostbite code in the winter, there's no way you've got anybody who survived the barge journey to Utterby without the proper clothing. In other words, you need to give those fancy cloaks to the newbies.[/edit]

So yes, the weather code is nice, but it isn't perfect. There are some valid ideas here about how to make it better, and as much as 'Weather code sucks!' is an unhelpful and thoughtless response to the weather code, 'Don't go outside' is an equally unhelpful response to criticism of said weather code.
User avatar
Rivean
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:53 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby Tiamat » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:51 pm

a) As mentioned, information about the changes in temperature is not always as in your face as it would be in real life. There's no way there's going to be a snow or thunderstorm while I'm in my house and I don't find out about it till I open the door and step outside.

b) There seems to be no gradation in temperature at all. You go from perfectly normal to taking damage from frostbite. This is, again, essentially an information problem, and ideally it would be addressed by changes in weather state having more states other than damage and non-damage, and that these weather states echo to the player when the PC exits into a weather room, or when the states change while he or she is already outside. So for winter you could have cool but pleasant -> chilly -> uncomfortably cold -> freezing cold and risk of frostbite.


There is graduation in temperature. There's various temperatures through out the day even in winter, if you pay attention and use the "weather" command through out the day. Temperature in itself doesn't damage you any longer. The weather goes from the 30-40s in deep winter to as low as 5 degrees at night. As such, you'd see "cold", "very cold", "freezing", and "bone chilling" through out the day. It does have fatigue penalties based on how cold/hot it is. Blizzards do cause frostbite if you're not wearing proper clearing. That's it. Nothing else causes frostbite anymore. I can likely add in an echo for when a blizzard starts for adjacent rooms.

c) Frostbite damage is instant. There's no way that you can just step outside into bad weather and instantly suffer frostbite.


Yes, it's a point that's been brought up before. That said, there's no easy way in the code to account for "stacking up" cold, accumulating into frostbite. This is the best that can be done. Besides giving proper warning to players, I think the forstbite damage is fine (and mild) as is.
Image
User avatar
Tiamat
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby pinocchio » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:09 pm

Tiamat wrote:The weather goes from the 30-40s in deep winter to as low as 5 degrees at night. As such, you'd see "cold", "very cold", "freezing", and "bone chilling" through out the day.

Until your post, I honestly didn't know whether "freezing" or "bone chilling" was meant to be colder. I'm still not entirely certain exactly what temperatures any of these descriptions correspond to (except, of course, assuming a literal definition of freezing). Is there any possibility of getting a few more details along these lines added to "help weather"?

[As a side note, I confess I can never remember whether "late night" is supposed to come before or after midnight. Can we maybe add approximate times (or at least an order) to "help information time" too?]

Tiamat wrote:I can likely add in an echo for when a blizzard starts for adjacent rooms.

That'd be amazing, but just an echo for the outdoor rooms themselves would be a big help. (I've checked my log three times -- if it's there, I'm really blind, and I apologize for making a nuisance of myself about it!)

Tiamat wrote:This is the best that can be done. Besides giving proper warning to players, I think the frostbite damage is fine (and mild) as is.

If "help weather" mentioned something like, for example, "Should your character be caught outside in a blizzard without appropriately protective clothing (including perhaps some hint as to what qualifies, and if it can be detected by "examine", "evaluate", or some other means), he or she will take frostbite damage. A completely unprotected PC may, depending on his or her constitution (and pre-existing injuries, if any) take anywhere from 20 to 30 RL minutes [made-up numbers!] to die of exposure in this situation," then the echoes would be much less startling, and I'd feel less rushed in my RP.

Otherwise, I'd love to see a warning message [notifying me that I'm going to be taking damage very soon] when I first step into a blizzard (or have one chase me down), and then damage each tick thereafter, but if that's not doable, I'm sure I'll manage. As you say, the damage is very minor; it's just a bit of a shock when one first encounters it (and has no idea whether one has 5 minutes or 50 to emote about hurrying back inside).

Edit: I'd also have found the experience less confusing and stressful if I could find a helpfile that described the wound spectrum -- having no idea whether a small or a minor was worse, or how many of either might be in six stars (roughly speaking, given differences in constitution) made me more flustered than I might otherwise have been.
User avatar
pinocchio
Dwarf Recruit
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:23 am

Re: Cold/frostbite/insane

Postby krelm » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:00 pm

[As a side note, I confess I can never remember whether "late night" is supposed to come before or after midnight. Can we maybe add approximate times (or at least an order) to "help information time" too?]


Dusk
Night time
Midnight
Late at night
Before dawn
Dawn

Just for the record.
One among the fence.
User avatar
krelm
Calce Ferio asini Operarius
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:01 pm
Location: Brought to You Live, Via Sorcery

Next

Return to General Discussion

cron

Connect

FacebookTwitter

Login

Who is online

Amazing people browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login