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Mercy

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Mercy

Postby Throttle » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:55 pm

See: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1534

While any final judgment must be withheld until it has been tested, and acknowledging that alpha has room to test unorthodox things, my initial reaction is that this is utterly against the principles that make a game an RPI. Soft permadeath is antithesis to the tenets that make this genre special.

One main thing that this will likely do is completely rule out any form of betrayal or secretive murders. I suppose orcs might be able to do this inside their sphere, since this feature applies only in Mirkwood, but that's largely out of the question for humans as it's hard to justify killing anybody inside Utterby. Not that this sort of thing should be commonplace amongst characters of the human sphere, but the possibility should not be taken away.

Another thing is that it will artificially prolong the lives of PCs and might harm the roleplaying environment through stagnation and a lack of roles changing hands. The ARPI codebase is very brutal for the first month of a PC's life, but once skills are high and the best possible armor is obtained, surviving is actually remarkably easy. Once the only risk of death is the very rare PKing or HRPT, it would probably be easy to keep up with the cost of revival.

Anyway, alpha mandates that we allow things to be tested without naysaying beforehand, but I have to say I'm incredibly skeptical about this feature and would never have expected to see something like it on any of the established RPIs.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Matt » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:05 pm

This almost made me throw up all over my computer.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Hawkwind » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:07 pm

I will reserve final judgement for instances it is actually used in, but it does seem to go against the grain of an RPI. Essentially a get out of jail free card, removing all risk from encounters both PVP and PVE. Part of the enjoying is knowing the risks you take.

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Re: Mercy

Postby toofast » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:08 pm

I did throw up when I read this. No clue what you guys are thinking. Going to avoid being an ass because I'll get banned but facepalms all around
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Re: Mercy

Postby Matt » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:09 pm

But seriously, it's not April yet is it?

tell orc (finally cornering him deep in mirkwood in a cave) Prepare to die!

A big badass orc poofs away when a bunch of snagas run in and teleport off with him! His clothes land on the ground like he just ceased to exist!

Shout WTF WAS THAT?!
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Re: Mercy

Postby someguy » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:11 pm

I thought it was some kind of August 10th Fool's Joke.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Real » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:14 pm

It is very jarring, but I like the idea of preventing clan wipes. The aftermath always really sucks for the sphere.

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Re: Mercy

Postby Alcarin » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:16 pm

I definitely understand why you'd have reservations about this idea. I have reservations of my own for it, and agree with much of what has been posted so far.

But please, keep the thread as constructive as possible.
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Re: Mercy

Postby someguy » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:17 pm

Real wrote:It is very jarring, but I like the idea of preventing clan wipes. The aftermath always really sucks for the sphere.

As it should be.
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Re: Mercy

Postby krelm » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:17 pm

Shit, I guess we're a non-permadeath MUSH now. Time to pack up.

EDIT:

Okay, maybe it's a MUX.
Last edited by krelm on Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Hazgarn » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:17 pm

Come one, guys, I'm sure we're capable of expressing our reservations without all the snark...

Aren't we?

But I'll definitely agree this command just doesn't seem in keeping with the spirit or history of the game. :(
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Re: Mercy

Postby hobbitboots » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:18 pm

I think the very real threat of irrevocable death is what keeps players acting realistically and gives you that sense of excitement every time you leave town.

Spending RPP on something like this isn't nearly harsh enough. You should be taking a permanent loss of stat points to represent permanent injury.

But yeah, overall I would prefer to remain permadeath.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Matt » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:20 pm

I'm pretty sure the large majority of reaction to this idea is going to be pretty negative.

I'll second Krelms call of packing up.

I'd be alright with it if you do what hobbit suggested.

But it has to be like -6 stat points picked randomly.
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Re: Mercy

Postby toofast » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:25 pm

Matt wrote:I'm pretty sure the large majority of reaction to this idea is going to be pretty negative.

I'll second Krelms call of packing up.

I'd be alright with it if you do what hobbit suggested.

But it has to be like -6 stat points picked randomly.


Why picked randomly?

Should be taken evenly from strength, con and wil. Maybe 3 points each.
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Re: Mercy

Postby krelm » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:26 pm

You know, Harshlands has permadeath.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Real » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:27 pm

someguy wrote:
Real wrote:It is very jarring, but I like the idea of preventing clan wipes. The aftermath always really sucks for the sphere.

As it should be.

I mean sucks in the sense that we stop doing particularly interesting stuff while everyone grinds.

However, I can see where this leaves us, and how it makes us less hardcore by a great span. I tend to lean toward things being harsher so I understand, but let's see how it turns out. Maybe, just maybe, people will use it only to escape twinky PKs.

I think it should be amended to only be used for specific, horrid situations like a surprise warging or an out-of-nowhere dire boar near Utterby (...) or a griefer who decides to take advantage of the fact that you're sleeping at three stars to take your gear. Maybe it should be logged whenever someone uses it and reviewed by staff, and not allowed to be used in conventional PVP.

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Re: Mercy

Postby someguy » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:30 pm

How would staff enforce it after the fact? Just set dude dead from their wounds? I get a feeling staff wouldn't be eager to do that after the lost RPP.


Revise the no rez period policy and if a situation was jacked up codely, give them a rez. Don't code a get out of death with a minimum cost (because if you don't die you don't need the RPP) escape.
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Re: Mercy

Postby tehkory » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:31 pm

krelm wrote:You know, Harshlands has permadeath.


Look, I'm all for calling out Staff when I see dumb things. Indeed, I'm probably -too- eager to point out dumb things, so I can feel self-superior.

But suggesting we all pack up our bags and head to some other MUD over a single command is...beyond silly.

That said. So's this command. Sorry, but...no. Encouraging players to leave people 'alive' codedly but 'left for dead' ICly is the way to go, surely, but in the end people are supposed to die. That's the way of things. Giving everybody a 'free way out' at the push of a button is -never- a good thing, whether it comes at the cost of stat points or whatever else.
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Re: Mercy

Postby krelm » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:31 pm

or a griefer who decides to take advantage of the fact that you're sleeping at three stars to take your gear.


I would rather see the griefer punished than have the character survive and have the entire situation forgotten.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Matt » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:32 pm

What's the exact thing that pops up when you get knocked uncon? I'll just set that as a trigger. NO ONE SAY THOSE EXACT WORDS IG. :D
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Re: Mercy

Postby krelm » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:33 pm

Also, if the grifer's going to shittily PK someone, what's going to stop them from going to the publicly-accessed healer room and just merc the guy they were going to kill there?
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Re: Mercy

Postby Real » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:36 pm

someguy wrote:Revise the no rez period policy


This is ideal. My supporting the mercy command is solely based on the fact that I know if I die unfairly no rez is coming, even if it was infinitesimally stupid.
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Re: Mercy

Postby tehkory » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:40 pm

Real wrote:
someguy wrote:Revise the no rez period policy


This is ideal. My supporting the mercy command is solely based on the fact that I know if I die unfairly no rez is coming, even if it was infinitesimally stupid.


My God, this. This is an Alpha. We should feel encouraged to take risks, and test shit, and rewarded for finding murderous bugs. There's too much investment in crafting and playing a concept to 'risk it,' otherwise.

krelm wrote:
or a griefer who decides to take advantage of the fact that you're sleeping at three stars to take your gear.


I would rather see the griefer punished than have the character survive and have the entire situation forgotten.

My only concern here is that the major effect of griefers is not alleviated by punishment, but by repair.
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Re: Mercy

Postby radioactivejesus » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:43 pm

I understand the problem this new command seeks to resolve, but my knee-jerk reaction is that it is a terrible solution that feels rather OOC. I'm sure you guys can come up with a way to make pvp less lethal that doesn't equate to 'trade RPP for get out of jail free cards'
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Re: Mercy

Postby hobbitboots » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:44 pm

I would not revise the rez policy, either. People care a whole lot about their characters and will raise a stink if they think one person got preferential treatment because they play a staff pet or whatever.

The rule should be that if you die, you're dead, with one caveat. I would support a rez in the case of a code bug, but not in the case of questionable roleplay.

I know it sucks to lose a loved character to a shitty situation. It cuts stories short. It sets back progress with what a given clan is trying to accomplish, but when the leader dies that just means it's time for the next person to step up. The story takes an unexpected turn, but it's not the end of the world.

I think permadeath adds WAY more to the game than twink killers ever took away from it.
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