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Mercy

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Re: Mercy

Postby EltanimRas » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:38 am

bjg2k1us wrote:If the 'mercy' command were changed to immediately offer all your RPP to the person about to kill you in exchange for them reconsidering your fate, it would be entirely OOC and massively abusable, and still be better than this suggestion.

Let's go find an elf?
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Re: Mercy

Postby Rivean » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:40 am

EltanimRas wrote:
bjg2k1us wrote:If the 'mercy' command were changed to immediately offer all your RPP to the person about to kill you in exchange for them reconsidering your fate, it would be entirely OOC and massively abusable, and still be better than this suggestion.

Let's go find an elf?


****ing RPP farmers.
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Re: Mercy

Postby likui » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:49 am

Rivean wrote:
EltanimRas wrote:
bjg2k1us wrote:If the 'mercy' command were changed to immediately offer all your RPP to the person about to kill you in exchange for them reconsidering your fate, it would be entirely OOC and massively abusable, and still be better than this suggestion.

Let's go find an elf?


****ing RPP farmers.


Woot! I killed 2 elves and a dwarf in one weekend! I'm going to remove my armor and play Dancing With Wolves, then I'll roll a L33t Maiar! Yipee!!!
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Re: Mercy

Postby Hazgarn » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:40 pm

Gobbo wrote:What bothers me the most is that instead of staff back peddling and taking the feedback from the community and doing something else, they are 'DEFENDING' this awful idea and intending to put it in while ignoring the community anyway.


To be fair, I feel Nimrod has the right to defend any bit of code he's put in, because it's probably taken a chunk of time between planning and writing it. Nor would I really expect him to be in the mood to immediately shift to considering player-suggested alternatives right away. I can imagine I'd be pretty cranky if I put time and effort into something, probably expecting people to get behind the idea, only to find out that practically no one likes it. :(

It been less than 24 hours since this feature was even announced. I think we have to accept that the staff will need to take time to digest the feedback we've been giving, and that any "back peddling" or compromise is probably not going to occur right away.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Sahoj » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:30 pm

Cool idea with Mercy.

Instead of costing 1 RPP - how about just putting 1 Mercy in every PC's quiver?

No refunds. One shot.

Perhaps very clearly define the areas/borders where Mercy is available for use with a helpfile/different color room-titles in the client.

I think the chance for any sort of sustainability in a sphere is generally going to outweigh the value of a death.

Also - Mercy could put PC's in an out-of-game waiting room of sorts so staff can review its use before allowing said character back into play. These are characters who have been grievously wounded and may take months to recover - some waiting time is reasonable.

Cheers,
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Re: Mercy

Postby Rivean » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:44 pm

Look, we finally found someone who doesn't think this is a horrible idea!
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Re: Mercy

Postby krelm » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:50 pm

I remain unswayed.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Sahoj » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:16 pm

I think it is a brave and powerful move that could/should be implemented a little differently - I also don't have all the answers/just a few suggestions.

I'm also biased and generally a white knight on game forums these days. It seems like most game staff would be better off doing something else in the life meta than dealing with an internet community.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Matt » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:21 pm

Sahoj wrote:I think it is a brave and powerful move that could/should be implemented a little differently - I also don't have all the answers/just a few suggestions.

I'm also biased and generally a white knight on game forums these days. It seems like most game staff would be better off doing something else in the life meta than dealing with an internet community.


Uhm... what?
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Re: Mercy

Postby krelm » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:28 pm

I think it is a brave and powerful move that could/should be implemented a little differently - I also don't have all the answers/just a few suggestions.


I think it's a brave/powerful move that should be saved for a game that isn't an RPI. Maybe an RPE.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Icarus » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:35 pm

Staff appreciate the constructive feedback regarding this. We are presently discussing the original proposal in light of the community's reaction to it.
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Re: Mercy

Postby hobbitboots » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:43 pm

In principle, I like the idea that the staff is willing to try radically new things, but... this isn't the part of would be messing with.

Maybe we've had permadeath for so long, that we've lost sight of why it is such a very good thing? Let us count the ways!

1 - It lets us be brave, and it makes the game more exciting. If I know I can sidestep death, then why should I be afraid?

2 - It makes our actions meaningful. If you know they have a magic escape button, then are they really being brave by facing that foul creature?

3 - It makes us hold our friends close and worry over them. Don't go out by yourself, you could be killed!

4 - It gives us final victory, and the code is the impartial arbiter. Ding dong, the witch is dead!

5 - It keeps people honest. Raaah, I'm going to charge that pack of wargs! I mean, I've got RPP to burn if things go bad, right?

6 - Perhaps most of all, it supports good story telling, and the alternative shatters our suspension-of-disbelief. Aren't we here to tell a good story? Being suddenly whisked away to safety is a poorly conceived McGuffin at best.


And now let me address the intentions given in the staff post on it.

1. Help players avoid twinky pk's.

Twink killers have been a problem forever, and I doubt the mercy command will see them gone. Newbies are still a fat target for them. I know that it is frustrating to have pivotal character suddenly die a meaningless death, but sometimes that's just how it goes. Somebody else has to step up. Dealing with twink killers is certainly something that needs to be addressed, but this solution just presents too many new problems without solving the original problem.

2. Encourage more pvp by removing some of the brutality.

I think by removing death, combat becomes less meaningful. Even if it does produce more pvp, I think it will be of lower quality. Why should I be wowed by somebody that volunteered for combat if they never were really risked anything?

3. Avoid clan wipes.

If a clan wipes due to a bug, then I think everybody should get a rez, not just the ones with RPP. If a clan wipes due to bad leadership, well, them's the breaks. Hopefully the next guy will do a better job of assessing risk. I (with 0 RPP) do not want to follow the sergeant into battle when he has a magic escape button and I do not! I care about my character, too.

4. Allow players an extra level of protection for their beloved characters.

Of course we love our characters, and we've all felt that sting of losing one when we didn't feel like their time had come. But, I think that a lot of our love for them comes from the fact that they are mortal and fragile. Love them today because they could be gone tomorrow!
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Re: Mercy

Postby Ava » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:20 pm

someguy wrote:Ok, how about this. Not being able to use the kill command on a PC until they are unconscious and then have a little blurb about how douchy it is, forcing you to type kill again.

Edit: Maybe even a way to engage in a turn based final combat scene which would really only work well in one on one fights or some sort of final emote that was talked about on SOI. You're about to die, but you can type out your grizzly end as you see fit in the next two minutes.


This would be incredible regardless of what else is decided! The shift from person to object is so jarring I think - it would be neat for there to be roleplay in that transition.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Hazgarn » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:49 pm

hobbitboots wrote:3. Avoid clan wipes.

If a clan wipes due to a bug, then I think everybody should get a rez, not just the ones with RPP. If a clan wipes due to bad leadership, well, them's the breaks. Hopefully the next guy will do a better job of assessing risk. I (with 0 RPP) do not want to follow the sergeant into battle when he has a magic escape button and I do not! I care about my character, too.

This is one of the best points I think I've seen brought up yet...
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Re: Mercy

Postby Saellyn » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:51 pm

I do not support this idea at all.

Instead, make Mercy a toggle.

When you type it once, it activates a combat mode where the "killing blow" has its damage reduced to knock the person out instead, and therein you can only kill the person by typing "kill x !"

somewhat like what Songweaver said.

Typing Mercy again deactivates this. It's a code thing from arm that I think would do much better than me paying 1 rpp to be teleported to safety, because that's what that is. It's a deus ex machina to prevent somebody from killing me. It's not an RP tool at all.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Zargen » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:05 pm

Wish this was around for my last pc :lol:
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Re: Mercy

Postby gyre » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:28 am

Personally, I don't have a problem dying, but I do dislike unsatisfying deaths.

If there was to be a mercy command, I'd definitely prefer it to give me a chance to RP out a death properly. Either some way to stop coded combat and go to RP, maybe giving the victim a 'die' command (would have to not work with mobs), or a way to set character to 'terminal', so they have will definitely die, but have a chance to RP it out. I don't really think it should cost RPP in this situation, but could potentially require it.

All of that said, I'd still rather die to twinks than resort to some OOC method to escape.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Icarus » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:36 am

Considering the feedback received, we will not be implementing a mercy command.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Rivean » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:15 am

Icarus wrote:Considering the feedback received, we will not be implementing a mercy command.


<3
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Re: Mercy

Postby Matt » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:30 pm

<3
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Re: Mercy

Postby Canawa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:14 pm

I want Nimrod to know, I still love him... and his robotic form.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Eugene » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:32 pm

Such a command is ripe for abuse. I would deliberately abuse it.

Administrators should deal with player-versus-player disputes on a case-by-case basis.
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Re: Mercy

Postby likui » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:55 pm

Eugene wrote: I would deliberately abuse it.


I really admire your honesty, Eugene! No mincing of words, just right to the point. :D
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Re: Mercy

Postby Eugene » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:39 pm

We're technically playtesting this whole thing, so part of our responsibility is to break and exploit the game.
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Re: Mercy

Postby likui » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:41 pm

Good point.
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