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Bored

Postby krelm » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:46 am

[Precursor, most of this is just griping about playing combat characters. I'm sure crafters have a fantastic time, but I have never and will never play a crafter.]

Feel free to flame me, but does anyone else play this game and just get dreadfully bored? Like I know there are downtimes and stuff, and if I consciously remembered all the time I spent tavern-sitting my brain would melt, but it seems like, when I play SoI, this is more than normal. This is probably what led me to stop playing for several months, and will likely be what causes me to stop playing in the future.

There's nothing to do, especially as a combat character. The wilderness is a joke, resources are easy enough to get without running into anything particularly dangerous (you can usually go out alone and gather enough crap to do whatever it is you're trying to do), and there are no big plots, or RPTs, or anything of that sort.

I mean sure, I can have fun just RPing, but I really, really don't want to play Tavern Sit MUD. There just-- no danger. Utterby's supposed to be some dinky little lumbering town on the verge of getting swallowed by Darkness, not some impregnable fortress situated in the middle of, say, Anorien, but it definitely feels like the latter to me (or rather felt, back when I played human, and, from what I've seen, this appears to still be the case). The only thing around to really challenge either sphere is the players from the opposite sphere, but that can be entirely avoided by just never leaving your respective home base-- and besides that, it isn't a constant, lingering fear, so much as it is a: "I vaguely hope those douchers aren't out at this specific moment," thing.

Like, when I play humans, I want to feel like I'm the last bastion against encroaching Darkness, and I just don't feel like I'd get that. On the other hand, when I play orcs, I want to be able to actually accomplish evil stuff without needing an admin present, and without having to wait right outside of Utterby's gates for some random joe to walk out.

I mean, are the admins busy doing all sorts of other crap? Yes. Do I understand that means they don't have time to throw some badguys at some random asshole complaining on the forums? Sure I do. Will they get around to making the game dangerous, and fun, at least to combat characters? It may be in the works, but it's, from memory, been the works for something like 8 months now, and the wilderness load progs haven't, seemingly, been touched since Tiamat made them.

I'm just saying, to me, the gameworld just feels...empty. Empty and devoid of danger. I mean the northern expansion doesn't even have wilderness in it 99% of the time (going back to the aforementioned wilderness progs).

What do I hope to accomplish by posting this? I don't know. Maybe I just need to vent. Hell, in all reality maybe Atonement ALPHA probably ruined me to MUDs forever, and I can never have fun unless I'm getting attacked by 15 mobs at the same time. Maybe a whole bunch of crap will be implemented around the time Beta rolls out and it'll be fun again. But, as it stands, it's doing nothing for me, but I really, really want it to.
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Re: Bored

Postby WorkerDrone » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:53 am

More so than just danger, as with Atonement ALPHA, I want danger steeped in lore, and plot and story, with lots of characters--lots of PCs that is, coming together and piecing it together with their own respective parts. I want to be able to go out, and interact with the gameworld, as with Atonement, in a structured and controlled way, and I want to be able to do it without an admin holding my hand.

HRPTs are nice, fine, awesome, but what do I do the other nine tenths of the time I play this game?

Projects should be constructed around players being able to interact with them, maybe via progs, in such a way that with minimal admin assistance players are active at all times, and with major assistance the story regularly advances.

Otherwise, why log in?

But again, I of all people should know better than to say, "IT WOULD BE SO SIMPLE IF YOU JUST DID X". I know why the staff haven't done "X", where "X" would be what would make things quote unquote "better". Lack of manpower, I suppose, is a contributor, but at this rate maybe everyone with the braincells and eyesight should read about how to prog, craft and code and...promptly go contribute to the FutureMUD project.
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Re: Bored

Postby Icarus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:13 am

I think Atonement and here are very much different, due in large part to Atonement being a focused, story based experience for the first phase of its life and this instance being much more sandbox based.

That and the game was very much on a touch of pause between october and february, with staffing levels at bare minimum. Momentum is returning though.

What I could use, as combat lead, is a list of things that you would like to see. Some projects you'd love us to work on. And maybe some solution to the problem of some folks not wanting lots of player death and super danger out there, and others craving it.
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Re: Bored

Postby Faemhel » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:27 am

It's tragic to think of how many amazing settings SoI has had over the years. Even on the topmudsite forums to this day, people fondly speak of SoI before it's closure for the revamp. And people are less willing to contribute time, because virtually all of the work put into Angrenost was for not- Always too many renewed visions. This mud has been rewritten so many times. Instead of adding new locations to the existing map over the years, we always decided to close down the old ones. This results in there never being anything but fond memories, with the tangible stuff just gone. At this point, I would pay money to be able to travel between the Koala farm and Minas Tirith again. I miss how big of a deal a trip was between them, and how much fun it was to be welcomed in both cities if you were a soldier, but how there was still that subtle distrust was at first, when a stranger entered the city. How cool and brave the knights were, and how epic and mysterious the elven scout named Traveler, I think, always seemed. I remember the black Numenorean librarian type in the tower in Mordor- I dreamt of being that guy, some day. Even now, if we accomplish everything... in the end, we will be small characters in a nameless town, and it will not be the same as striding along the walls of Osgiliath.

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Re: Bored

Postby Songweaver » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:36 am

Icarus wrote:I think Atonement and here are very much different, due in large part to Atonement being a focused, story based experience for the first phase of its life and this instance being much more sandbox based.

That and the game was very much on a touch of pause between october and february, with staffing levels at bare minimum. Momentum is returning though.

What I could use, as combat lead, is a list of things that you would like to see. Some projects you'd love us to work on. And maybe some solution to the problem of some folks not wanting lots of player death and super danger out there, and others craving it.


1) A lot more plot. Plots that tie into other plots, that tie into bigger, more long-term plots. Plot-twists. I like my RPIs to be like a television show. Y'know, the kind where the main characters die, and you're constantly meeting new ones. I know that there's always an argument of sandbox vs story-focus for RPIs, but every RPI out there is a sandbox right now. All of them. SOI3 could find its uniqueness and place to shine with a return to the story-focused ways of some spheres on old SOI, and ARPI.

2) Fix the wilderness spawning system. I dunno what happened to it, but it does not seem to be spawning the same amount of danger as it used to. Someone probably knows why. Also, come up with some spawns (and feel free to make them different than the others, with similar tiers/stats) for the northern expansion.

3) More progs. I think WD mentioned this, but I think that hiring on a scripter (I am not even nearly suggesting myself), with at least a base-line understanding of the engine's combat system, would be very useful. I don't care about how many rooms are in the wilderness. I care about the interactivity, and the secrets, and the surprises. There's not enough of these, and because of that, wandering the wilderness feels like I'm walking over a white sheet of paper many times. I'll wander through four to eight rooms with copy/paste descriptions mix-matched, only to finally find a room with a unique description. Perhaps the room has a cairn in it, or a burned out house, or an abandoned farmstead. However, without scripting, there's no means for me to interact with that room. It should absolutely be the opposite.

Plus, a scripter can improve your entry-level mob AI. Alcarin was starting to get decent at this many months ago.

4) As with creating long-term plot, create long-term enemies, and stop wearing kid gloves. It's okay to kick the PCs' asses, so long as they have a fair chance to either a) escape, or b) potentially win. It's okay for you to kill players. It's good. Make those deaths meaningful, of course, but SOI3's much more deadly a la PVP (and even random wilderness) than a la RPTs. Again, I always like to think of an RPI like a weekly television/action drama. Sometimes, the guy you really like (or everyone was starting to really like) dies. And always, it gets great treatment by the writers, with a focus on how it affects the characters around those that died. Adapting this philosophy to realize that plot twists are also effective is key. And, having enemies that beat the PCs two, three, four, ten times before the PCs finally find a way to win ... that is the opportunity to really give the players and characters a sense of true accomplishment. The River Monster had the opportunity to be this, but instead of killing PCs and leaving lasting effects on the town of Utterby from its attack (meaningful, game-changing effects), everyone who got hit by the monster got reduced to one star automatically. We can do better, and be more dynamic, than that.

5) RPAs, don't stop wandering! Learn what makes every character tick. Apply that knowledge to your plots, or to your brainstorming. How can you create interesting problems for these characters? Read journals, study thoughts, watch PCs when they are alone (and not just automatically goto whatever room has the biggest population -- these are often the least interesting scenes, particularly if they're in a tavern.) Make it be your job to understand every character as well as their player does, and weave your story through that fine understanding. Don't just linger on one, or two, or a few of your favorites when you're watching.

These are the things that I would most like to see, in short. Not all of them are directly combat related, but I think all of the above does inter-relate in important ways, and in particular towards combat players (who tend to be more interested in story-focus than sandbox).
Last edited by Songweaver on Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bored

Postby Songweaver » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:51 am

And maybe some solution to the problem of some folks not wanting lots of player death and super danger out there, and others craving it.


I'm just speaking honestly, and from my opinion here, without any intention to offend anyone.

I've always leaned towards preferring danger, and a healthy amount of PC turnover, because I've always felt like the people who are very proactive, the players that make things happen, prefer this by-and-large. If you want to have a low chance of death in SOI, if you're not a fan of permanent death, the answer is simple: don't play a combatant. I still think big plots should sometimes kill off non-combatant characters as well (again, because turnover is the key to forward movement player-side), but you can scale the number way back for them. A lot of the folks who don't prefer a dangerous environment, IMO, simply tend to be less proactive. This isn't always true, but it's very often true.

Case-in-point: how long has it taken the Utterby PCs (the crafters, largely), even with added vNPC support, to build the expansion? They can't even be bothered to keep those vNPC support objects fed. :p By comparison, the orcs (more combat-oriented, overall) finished their own expansion/major building project in a fraction of the time.
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Re: Bored

Postby cfelch » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:45 am

Crafting can be boring as well, to be honest.

More often then not i am doing busywork for the sake of branching, not because anyone has a specific need for what i am making.

Yea, those things can be sold in the autoshop, for some coin... but there is really nothing to even spend coin on but for more supplies for the next project.

As for the room description bit you mentioned...

I had showed this to one of our staff, but they balked at the prospect of adding look descriptions for each of the items mentioned in a room description that could conceivably be a tangible item.
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Re: Bored

Postby radioactivejesus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:54 am

Icarus wrote:What I could use, as combat lead, is a list of things that you would like to see. Some projects you'd love us to work on.


warcraft code, warcraft code, and warcraft code. If it's done properly it will be the solution to basically all the problems Krelm just stated. Has the release date been pushed back? Because if not, it should be coming in any day now, and I'm pretty excited for it.

Making the mirkwood forest a hack'n'slash like it was at the start of the game, where you had to take out 3 snakes, 2 boars and 4 wolves in each room would not do much to better my enjoyment, and would end up feeling like a chore after a few weeks, even if it would give me some sweet skill boosts. That said, the northern mirkwood still does need to have some sort of wildlife added in
Last edited by radioactivejesus on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bored

Postby shezzarine » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:05 am

Personally I tend to get incredibly emotionally attached to my characters, like to an extent which is honestly pretty embarrassing to admit. It's how I get involved with roleplay and it's what gets me excited and wanting to come back and play more. I can't do one-off PCs and character death has been traumatic enough for me in the past to make me lose interest in a MUD entirely; all the plots, stories, and characters I'd gotten involved with were no longer accessible and the idea of putting the time into another character getting to that point was daunting.

I understand the necessity of PC death entirely and wholly believe it ought to be a real and ever present thing, but I guess this is just a reminder that, for some people (because I surely can't be the only one like this, right?), character death isn't as simple as an opportunity to roll a new character. Yeah turnover can make things more dangerous and purposeful and inertial(?) but it can also be incredibly discouraging and emotionally draining for the players who invest themselves into their characters in such a way.
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Re: Bored

Postby Oblivion » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:09 am

I don't particularly have a long and thought inspiring post to add, but as far as the Original Post... Yes. I've taken several months worth of breaks because of lack of interest.

Do I know how to 'make it better' ? Not particularly. I've been in a love-hate relationship with SoI for a very long time, starting with the first time they decided to close down Osgiliath vs Minas Morgul and move on to whatever the At the Time head of the game wanted to do (Huh... is it me or has it been a trend for every new Head Admin to close down the game and try to create some new sphere?)

I feel like I really can't get too involved or dedicate nearly as much time to being in character because there just ... isn't anything worth doing. And a lot of that, I feel, comes from a general lack of players, and players taking initiative, as well as the fact that a majority of the admins have 'Other Things' to do than pretty up things for a small player-base that isn't even in their permanent place of residence in this particular 'beta'.

Sorry, that ended up more long-winded than I'd planned. But I did stop myself before I got into Grand'pa-ing it up talking about things you could do in the past.
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Re: Bored

Postby cfelch » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:19 am

To be fair, they only close down spheres because the playerbase was getting strung out too thin and RP was dwindling.

That and when staff numbers got thin, they could not properly cater to the playerbase.

But I don't understand why they were scrapped entirely.
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Re: Bored

Postby krelm » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:47 pm

Echoing Songweaver's and Oblivion's posts. I can't really think of anything that could improve upon the current state, but Songweaver's suggestions seemed pretty spot on. I can, however, point out what I feel to be problems.

1. Wilderness is sparse, and what we do get is a joke.
- I remember the initial plan was to release wilderness in tiers alongside armor and weapons. Did the armor and weapons get a tier released and wilderness didn't? Because it sort of feels that way. The biggest threat I've seen so far since coming back was a warg pack of 6, and they'd wandered off into a location where no one would've found them before they despawned, anyway.

(Though, of course, as RJ mentioned, making it how it was when the game first opened wouldn't really be a solution, either. I'd suggest keying up the amount of things IG a little bit, but not overclocking it. And the northern forest really does need some crap in it. It just feels dead, otherwise.)

2. No plots.
- Of course, I think I've been back for about two weeks now. There's probably some small plots floating around that I haven't caught hold of yet. But as for metaplot? Beyond "Go kill humans/orcs" I haven't seen anything.

3. Too much focus on PvP
- This ties into 1, really, but, as I said in my original post, the pressing danger that presents itself to other spheres are the PCs of the opposite sphere, which is what leads to big PvP debates and a lot of butthurt. I wouldn't mind it if the occasional admin threw out an NPC patrol (a difficult NPC patrol, at that) at either side, just to shake things up.

4. The world just seems empty
- And this one ties into 2, but it seems like, other than PCs going out of their way to talk about it, the world stops existing outside of our 300 or so room sphere. Back early on there was a lot of this - different tribes showing up and fighting in and around the Vadok Mal, a bunch of people coming in from Laketown to talk to crappy Utterbites (Utterbians?), and all that good crap. Now it's just...us.

5. Add 0 RPP humans (not necessarily slaves, just bad humans) to the badguy side.
- Yeeeeeeeeeaaaah! And then change around the layout so that humans and wargs and orcs all are forced into the same social hub! Woo! (Not sarcasm. Completely serious.)



Also, just as a passing sort of endnote here, while I do think that all the proposed potential for warcraft could be interesting, I honestly think it's Too Big a project to tackle now. Especially with a release date of-- what was it, this month? I mean sure it looks spiffy, but I'd honestly advise working on other stuff that's been needing fixing for the past 8 months (I'm looking at you, farming crafts) before rolling out an all-new system that'll take a year to finish.
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Re: Bored

Postby WorkerDrone » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:05 pm

5. Add 0 RPP humans (not necessarily slaves, just bad humans) to the badguy side.
- Yeeeeeeeeeaaaah! And then change around the layout so that humans and wargs and orcs all are forced into the same social hub! Woo! (Not sarcasm. Completely serious.)


The people above me contributed far more to the conversation than I did and I totally agree with them but ALSO THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.
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Re: Bored

Postby LadyMizra » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:49 pm

WorkerDrone wrote:
5. Add 0 RPP humans (not necessarily slaves, just bad humans) to the badguy side.
- Yeeeeeeeeeaaaah! And then change around the layout so that humans and wargs and orcs all are forced into the same social hub! Woo! (Not sarcasm. Completely serious.)


The people above me contributed far more to the conversation than I did and I totally agree with them but ALSO THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.


I triple ditto this. Totally wanna play a human on the bad guy side with the orcs. Orc side needs more people and I think this will help get some people to the dark side. (We have cookies?)
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Re: Bored

Postby Hawkwind » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:40 pm

LadyMizra wrote:
WorkerDrone wrote:
5. Add 0 RPP humans (not necessarily slaves, just bad humans) to the badguy side.
- Yeeeeeeeeeaaaah! And then change around the layout so that humans and wargs and orcs all are forced into the same social hub! Woo! (Not sarcasm. Completely serious.)


The people above me contributed far more to the conversation than I did and I totally agree with them but ALSO THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.


I triple ditto this. Totally wanna play a human on the bad guy side with the orcs. Orc side needs more people and I think this will help get some people to the dark side. (We have cookies?)



Yiiiiiss. This would please many. It may balance the spheres a little, bringing some backstabbing to the evilsphere that has plagued the goodsphere.
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Re: Bored

Postby Hawkwind » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:44 pm

Songweaver wrote:1) A lot more plot. Plots that tie into other plots, that tie into bigger, more long-term plots. Plot-twists. I like my RPIs to be like a television show. Y'know, the kind where the main characters die, and you're constantly meeting new ones. I know that there's always an argument of sandbox vs story-focus for RPIs, but every RPI out there is a sandbox right now. All of them. SOI3 could find its uniqueness and place to shine with a return to the story-focused ways of some spheres on old SOI, and ARPI.


The thing is with this, is that the tv show is entertaining for those involved. Those who are unable to get in to the plot or story are little more than NPCs, faceless nobodies that must content themselves with whatever scraps of plot they find. That and the 'different characters dying' were all played by the same few actors. The sandbox approach allows those unable to get involved in the metaplot a chance to create their own stories in their own time without the worry that it will be destroyed.
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Re: Bored

Postby Celairel » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:39 am

Faemhel wrote:It's tragic to think of how many amazing settings SoI has had over the years. Even on the topmudsite forums to this day, people fondly speak of SoI before it's closure for the revamp. And people are less willing to contribute time, because virtually all of the work put into Angrenost was for not- Always too many renewed visions. This mud has been rewritten so many times. Instead of adding new locations to the existing map over the years, we always decided to close down the old ones. This results in there never being anything but fond memories, with the tangible stuff just gone. At this point, I would pay money to be able to travel between the Koala farm and Minas Tirith again. I miss how big of a deal a trip was between them, and how much fun it was to be welcomed in both cities if you were a soldier, but how there was still that subtle distrust was at first, when a stranger entered the city. How cool and brave the knights were, and how epic and mysterious the elven scout named Traveler, I think, always seemed. I remember the black Numenorean librarian type in the tower in Mordor- I dreamt of being that guy, some day. Even now, if we accomplish everything... in the end, we will be small characters in a nameless town, and it will not be the same as striding along the walls of Osgiliath.

/endrant


I agree with this as well, although there's not much that can be done about it now. I still miss SOI2 and all the things that I was able to do and accomplish there, and so far SOI3 just hasn't captured my attention the way the old game did. I don't feel anywhere near as connected to the people or the settings, and that doesn't really help motivate me to log in and play on a regular basis.

I do agree with what the posts before mine have said in regard to humans in the Mordor sphere, though. I adored the time that I got to spend in Egthela with the Librarian and all the other people and the fact that I really got a chance to see the other side of things, a side I wouldn't normally have seen because I know I wouldn't feel as comfortable playing an orc or a warg, I'm just not that good of a role player. I really hope this gets considered as an option.

And whether or not I end up engaged in this go-round, I really hope it sticks this time because it does make me sad seeing so many wonderful settings, plots, characters, storylines, actually IG histories, disappear every few years.
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Re: Bored

Postby Songweaver » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:28 am

The thing is with this, is that the tv show is entertaining for those involved. Those who are unable to get in to the plot or story are little more than NPCs, faceless nobodies that must content themselves with whatever scraps of plot they find. That and the 'different characters dying' were all played by the same few actors. The sandbox approach allows those unable to get involved in the metaplot a chance to create their own stories in their own time without the worry that it will be destroyed.


This is something that I would love to address. I really, truly believe that there is this lingering misconception in regards to what you said, Hawkwind. Two of them, actually.

Misconception One) Some people are just not able to get involved in the plot and story.

If you feel like you are one of these people, I promise you that it's because of one of the following two things:

- You're not actively trying to get involved in RPA-run plot.
- The admins aren't running much plot at all.

If running ongoing storylines and plots is a priority for the staff, there is absolutely no reason that anyone who attempts to get involved, shouldn't be able to get involved.

And if there are no storylines (or few) being run by staff, then what is stopping the players from creating their own long-term storylines? Only role diversification. The Free People/Hillmen clan, from my perspective, was just an ongoing storyline for Utterby that I imagined that I could create as a player. I always knew that it was not going to be around forever. It's possible that after years of RPAing, my go-to as a player is to create characters/clans/docs that are plot generators out of habit. But, if folks ask themselves how their characters might be plots for the rest of the playerbase, then all of the sudden PCs dare to do. It's not the same as an RPA run plot, but it is something, and it doesn't need a sandbox environment to work.

Misconception Two) You can only create your own plots in a sandbox. Nah. Maybe there is more economic and crafting automation and focus in a sandbox, but you can create your own plots for your PCs in any game. It's just your imagination that's stopping you.

If people are worried about death, then an RPI really isn't the right game for them. There are plenty of RPGs that don't have permanent death, but still are roleplay-focused. RPIs aren't meant to be like Second Life, or a sim, in my opinion. Sure, you can play house, and SOI has always offered options for the portion of the playerbase who doesn't want trouble, and just wants this sort of safer play. That's okay. But, as I mentioned before, the players that prefer to play house are rarely the players that are proactive in regards to accomplishing things and pushing along the story of the game.

Catering to just those players alienates a lot of the really great players in this community who want danger, who want plot, who want an epic story to be a part of; and that's why this thread exists.
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Re: Bored

Postby Gobbo » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:16 am

1. Humans in bad guy sphere. Yes please.

2. Player death is a necessity and there is no danger of it except for people going suicidal. I'm going to rant about the most recent rpt. We went into a super dangerous spider cave to rescue a damsel in distress. But the training wheels were fully on. Every piece of damage was healed as fast of the admins could do so. Not only were we healed. It was not even necessary we never faced enough to get anyone killed. Even with attrition I'm sure we wouldn't been fine and we could've all limped back home on 2-3 stars without heals. It made for a 4 hour long, rather boring rpt for me.

3. The hillmen were a good little mini-sphere and they created some tension and interesting rp. I realize they were doomed but the way it was done was just stupid. The staff loaded up npcs and basically closed down the hillmen. What should have happened was the npcs leadership of Utterby should have ordered the PC guard to do it instead. The hillmen got cheated, they didn't have a chance. Frankly it discourages anyone else from creating such a player run plot as the hillmen.

4. Hunting is too easy for some. The abundance of resources and the ease of getting meat/hides just discourages people from doing it. Being a hunter is boring because whatever boar you bring in is almost worthless. Selling stuff to npc shops like lumber is also silly to me. If there was more of a player to player economy there would be value in resource gathering and business.

How do you improve a player to player economy? First you give people a source of income to spend on goods. Two you give people something to spend the income on. Three, you make crafts and items that people want to buy that only pc's can make. This way you have players earning money in whatever field they are in and then spending on stuff like gear, furniture, decorations, clothings, etc.

In arpi I'm pretty sure that the the tailors recieved by far the most player to player business. There was such a huge variety of goods they could provide and pc's legitimately wanted to do business to get those goods.

4. I think we could use an admin stimulus package in the form of money, crafts, and wilderness challenges. Create some 2-3 rpp roles of wealthy investors from outside utterby that have been welcomed to the town to encourage growth.

Give these wealthy pc's the starting money needed to pay the pc's to build their houses. Give them the money they need to hire PC's to do the work these pc's are in town for. There are so many possibilities here.

On the flip side these pc's shouldn't get skill boost. These roles should only be for characters who come into the game with a business plan.
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Re: Bored

Postby EltanimRas » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:41 am

Songweaver wrote:Misconception One) Some people are just not able to get involved in the plot and story.

If you feel like you are one of these people, I promise you that it's because of one of the following two things: [...]

Or:

1. Their technique for getting involved is to have their character approach other players' characters IC, and they're being shut out IC.

2. They're playing a diligent soldier, a timid seamstress, or some other role/personality combination for which independent adventuring and investigation (either without or opposition to orders) is out-of-character, and from whom other PCs don't need help or information to pursue their plot-related goals.

3. They play off-peak and/or very limited hours. ("What, a river monster attacked and half-destroyed the town? Uh, yeah, I'm a really sound sleeper.")

[This being said, I do agree that if you're approaching staff -- either on when they're on, showing IC interest and activity, using the plan/status/think/feel/etc. commands OR communicating your interest via support ticket documentation of your PC's relevant actions & plans, you will get a response.]
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Re: Bored

Postby Songweaver » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:30 am

Good points, and ultimately:

[This being said, I do agree that if you're approaching staff -- either on when they're on, showing IC interest and activity, using the plan/status/think/feel/etc. commands OR communicating your interest via support ticket documentation of your PC's relevant actions & plans, you will get a response.]


This. If you're trying, and you're making the staff aware that you are trying, then you should be able to get involved. Should being the operative word.
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Re: Bored

Postby ThinkTwice » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:37 am

EltanimRas wrote:
Songweaver wrote:2. They're playing a diligent soldier, a timid seamstress, or some other role/personality combination for which independent adventuring and investigation (either without or opposition to orders) is out-of-character, and from whom other PCs don't need help or information to pursue their plot-related goals.


These things need to be considered by the player during character creation. As much as SoI allows you to play whatever personality type you want, if you're interested in getting plot, being proactive, and exploring things, you should probably build a PC who is interested in getting plot, being proactive, and exploring things.
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Re: Bored

Postby cfelch » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:21 am

Not every person has it in them to be proactive.
By nature the sorts of people who choose the more reserved roles tend to be the reactive players.
You can't expect people to fundamentally change who they are just to progress in a game.

This needs to be taken into consideration.
Every point ever made was an argument.
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Re: Bored

Postby Songweaver » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:45 am

You're absolutely right. But the less proactive players also tend to be the less needy players. By catering to them, as I feel like SOI3's done (even if unintentionally), you risk alienating the proactive players that make the difference between Middle-Earth Sim and epic fantasy RPI. By turning the difficulty level down to easy, and making plot be a secondary priority, I do think that we're slowly bleeding out good players that tend to make huge contributions to the immersion and excitement of the gameworlds that they play in.

It doesn't need to be an 'Us' vs 'Them' mentality in terms of players that prefer a more static, simulated environment, and those that prefer a more exciting, story-driven environment. Both things can be achieved. There are areas of (relative) safety set into the game that make this possible. It's not like Atonement, where the social hubs were not always safe.
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Re: Bored

Postby ThinkTwice » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:56 am

cfelch wrote:Not every person has it in them to be proactive.
By nature the sorts of people who choose the more reserved roles tend to be the reactive players.
You can't expect people to fundamentally change who they are just to progress in a game.

This needs to be taken into consideration.


As much as I respect that some people have a difficult time climbing out of their shells, neither is that the fault of the gameworld or staff. If you don't like the way you are, change. If you wish to be involved, get involved. The line of thinking presented here seems rather dangerously close to "My closet shut-in craft magnet introvert doesn't ever get any plot, and that's someone else's fault other than their closed-off, timid nature."

I agree it needs to be taken into consideration. If you have something you want, especially something as simple as asking questions and exploring in a MUD, then perhaps you should motivate yourself to go get it.

Note: All of this is entirely separate from the status of the game argument. The game does need more plot, just as it needs more players willing to chase it.
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