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The great wishlist

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The great wishlist

Postby Gobbo » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:41 pm

Post a feature or project you would like to see implemented to the mud soon. I want to know what everyone is waiting for, especially people who are not currently playing but are waiting for something to bring them back.

For me I would say the mini-fort (warcraft I think?) system that was hinted at. Giving us pvp targets would spruce things up for me.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Real » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:54 pm

For orcs:

Medkits, or some kind of remedy loaded in the tavern.
Right now we have no way to acquire these save for robbing humans. Orc starting gear can't be turned into bandages and we need torches more than anyone from the bandages we do get.

Wider venues of sale for carcasses. I'm sure the sawbones can find use for more than cave stuff; right now he only buys the fabled cave lizards, rats, and cave boar. Rats we can only find occasionally and they're worth 1cp, lizards never appear, cave boar take a 12 hr timer and are worth 5cp.

The prices don't need to be any higher for these other things, but could we get sows, male surface boar, does, bucks and bears added to the list of stuff he takes? Any combination thereof is fine but it feels like the bodies of these other things largely get wasted since the sphere has such an overload of meat.

Alternate route: put a chase cave-rat craft in with no timer or a 30 minute one like pheasants.

Also, it would be cool if the caravan visited a bit more often. Maybe we could make it a weekly thing that players in the sphere could plan/save up for?
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Hawkwind » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:20 pm

Less tall/muscular, dark haired men

It gets quite difficult when you've three of them in the room, all outfitted very similarly, all have very close mannerisms and all in the same area of employment. I know we tend to frown upon humping the ol' thesaurus, but disregard that for now!
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Icarus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:31 pm

Added medkits and bandages. Making you guys a meat buyer.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby radioactivejesus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:49 pm

a list of things I'd like to see?
Warcraft, warcraft, mini-forts and warcraft. And shields being able to block arrows
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby radioactivejesus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:51 pm

Real wrote:For orcs:

Medkits, or some kind of remedy loaded in the tavern.
Right now we have no way to acquire these save for robbing humans. Orc starting gear can't be turned into bandages and we need torches more than anyone from the bandages we do get.

Wider venues of sale for carcasses. I'm sure the sawbones can find use for more than cave stuff; right now he only buys the fabled cave lizards, rats, and cave boar. Rats we can only find occasionally and they're worth 1cp, lizards never appear, cave boar take a 12 hr timer and are worth 5cp.

The prices don't need to be any higher for these other things, but could we get sows, male surface boar, does, bucks and bears added to the list of stuff he takes? Any combination thereof is fine but it feels like the bodies of these other things largely get wasted since the sphere has such an overload of meat.

Alternate route: put a chase cave-rat craft in with no timer or a 30 minute one like pheasants.

Also, it would be cool if the caravan visited a bit more often. Maybe we could make it a weekly thing that players in the sphere could plan/save up for?

also basically all of this. Especially the rat thing. Human newbie hunters are allowed to flush rabbits from the absolute safety of their town and branch new abilities. Orcs need a craft of their own to parallel that.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby tehkory » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:00 pm

radioactivejesus wrote:also basically all of this. Especially the rat thing. Human newbie hunters are allowed to flush rabbits from the absolute safety of their town and branch new abilities. Orcs need a craft of their own to parallel that.


Alternatively, dear God, remove the ability to spawn wildlife animals inside town/from safety, because lord is that silly.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Matt » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:44 pm

lol it's still impossible to get bandages orc side?
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby radioactivejesus » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:03 am

tehkory wrote:
radioactivejesus wrote:also basically all of this. Especially the rat thing. Human newbie hunters are allowed to flush rabbits from the absolute safety of their town and branch new abilities. Orcs need a craft of their own to parallel that.


Alternatively, dear God, remove the ability to spawn wildlife animals inside town/from safety, because lord is that silly.

yea, that works too. Same goes for the fish humans can get. Long as things are even on both sides I'm happy.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Jarlhen » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:05 am

Hunting/fishing should be equal on both sides.

Here's my wishlist:
An economy admin. Someone who is in charge of balancing the economy on a bigger scale. That means complete lists of goods, productions, values, etc. for the entire region. It means a fluctuating market where base prices change. Perhaps actual caravans and trade barges. For instance, ever three IC months (at different times) there will be barges from three or four settlements, perhaps caravans heading to Gondor and Rohan.

Based on prices in the region they will offer to buy goods. Create some crafts to produce packages of the various goods. So for instance, 10 deer hides becomes a bundle of hides. This bundle can then be sold to any of the visiting merchants for whatever price. This would ensure profits for PCs who are in the business of producing this kind of goods. However, as no freelancer hunting has a place to store eighty hides the sellers will likely be organizations. It would also encourage PCs to follow prices, deduce when it's best to sell. Or, you know, some variation on that theme. And it should definitely be possible. However, a dedicated admin will be necessary. This admin would be all about economy, and also crafting I suppose. But someone to plan, create and build a good economy in a semi-self operating system. Of course, something similar for the orcses.

Make dangerous animals more dangerous. I find it weird that a single person armed with a knife can kill a warg. Granted, this person will take a lot of damage, but he'll still win. It's weird that one person can take down a boar or a beer. These creatures should be a big deal, as far as I'm concerned, and going to hunt these critters should be a group activity. Tying in to this, wolf and warg pelts should be worth selling. Specially warg pelts. Remember the Nlands wargs? Heeeheeeeee. While the meat for these creatures, not boars though, shouldn't be worth much the pelts should be worth a pretty penny.

Eh, I think that's it for now. I'm horrendously biased though. I've always loved hunting/economy in SoI. The potential to make it better has always been there and in different waves some admins pushed to improve on it but for various reasons it died out. It's worth looking in to imo!
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Icarus » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:08 am

We had an economic imm briefly, didn't quite work out unfortunantely.

Bandages and medkits are available in the orc tavern now.

We implemented progs to prevent hunting in Utterby last week. If people are still able to do this, please let us know.

I saw a group of 5 take down a stone troll last week without a problem, so yeah. I'm in agreement that mobiles might need an upgrade here soon. I'll be looking into thjs.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Patty » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:16 am

While some game is very easy to kill for certain players, I still many corpses outside with grievous notches.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Frigga » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:04 pm

Also, we are looking into the spawning critters inside Utterby thing. I do like the Orc rat hunting idea though.

And yes, we had a specific Economic admin for a bit in the beginning, alas, he was pulled away.

Unfortunately, changing the base coded prices on all items every few months is a bit much, but a dynamic market in some aspects can be created with buying prices based on buying NPC shopkeepers.

I agree about the trade barges and packaging items for bulk sale, we indeed have some of that now, though it's not quite ideal as is.

I do agree with the idea of balancing things more between the play areas (in ways that fit the theme/RP of both areas, ie - Orc meat buyer yes, cake baker probably not, lol.)
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Tykanis » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:49 pm

Now touching on adding more danger to animals. In real life you can kill boars with nothing more than a knife, I've seen it happen many times before a bear not so much. However if you make already dangerous critters (that have killed many many many PC's I might add) more dangerous it literally only succeeds in killing more of the newblets that wander out first things first faster. I once had a character that dualwielded longknives, and I could literally one man bears, packs of wargs, and wolves with little more than a scratch due to my -skill- with my weapons and defensive techniques. Now if you look canon almost everyone in the fellowship killed close to a legion if not more of orcs which I honestly think would be way more dangerous when you have a massive amount attacking you at once. Not to mention, No one in Utterby would ever be able to go outside as if you haven't already noticed we lack the Combative backbone as everyone seems to want to be a leatherworker or some other craft that we didn't have as many before though they were more skilled and had a ton of combatants. Though now we are on the opposite end of the spectrum with too many crafters that aren't that great at their craft and too little combatants.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby tehkory » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:22 pm

Tykanis wrote:Now touching on adding more danger to animals. In real life you can kill boars with nothing more than a knife, I've seen it happen many times before a bear not so much. However if you make already dangerous critters (that have killed many many many PC's I might add) more dangerous it literally only succeeds in killing more of the newblets that wander out first things first faster. I once had a character that dualwielded longknives, and I could literally one man bears, packs of wargs, and wolves with little more than a scratch due to my -skill- with my weapons and defensive techniques. Now if you look canon almost everyone in the fellowship killed close to a legion if not more of orcs which I honestly think would be way more dangerous when you have a massive amount attacking you at once. Not to mention, No one in Utterby would ever be able to go outside as if you haven't already noticed we lack the Combative backbone as everyone seems to want to be a leatherworker or some other craft that we didn't have as many before though they were more skilled and had a ton of combatants. Though now we are on the opposite end of the spectrum with too many crafters that aren't that great at their craft and too little combatants.

Newblets dying is less a problem with the game's difficulty level and more a problem with the failure of sphere leadership to grab newbies/drag them in/educate them(and a failure of the game to guide newbies into the clans that would do this). No amount of safety(besides 0 danger) is going to stop a newbie dying when he heads 2 dozen rooms from Utterby with neither armor nor weapon.

The danger(grievous wounds, etc.) that people refer to really just means people went out without being taught how the game works, and that'll kill you every time.

RE:being able to kill bears with knives, well. That's definitely something silly. Bears likely need some basic armor upgrades. Most everything in game needs that, truly. The danger sometimes needs to be less from upgrading base damage, and instead making things harder to kill in various ways. Like I said elsewhere, there's more than one way to make something better.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby mongwen » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:39 pm

Leave the game (creatures and monsters) alone. You can't say with complete accuracy that people didn't train newbies. Some people just overestimate their prowess, choose to do something dumb or simply get unlucky.
As for the troll, it deserved what it got and was going against some of the best equipped and most skilled in the area. Given that only so many can engage one individual at a time anyway, it makes sense they'd be able to kill it and if not, others would step in. This did happen when certain PCs got into trouble.
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I disagree there's no way you should be able to hunt in Utterby. If there's an area marked as a field, it makes sense you'd find a rabbit there, so it should be put back. It would be useful is terrain flags were put in the room titles, and would be useful for crafts that require certain terrain to run.

As for what I want: more artist kits, more ways to decorate, more uses per kit, and get rid of that warning that shows every single time you decorate something. Have it show say the first five times a PC decorates something, then assume they know it. Right now it just ends up interfering and looking like spam.
More and better gear.

I'd rather see stuff implemented rather than stuff so-called balanced. The economy's a joke, always has been and always will be, in any game. I'd rather see more fun in than a bunch of restrictions and so-called dynamic price-changing stuff put in. That's just the instinctive gut reaction based on mudding experience in the past.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby LukeRM » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:30 pm

tehkory wrote:
Tykanis wrote:Now touching on adding more danger to animals. In real life you can kill boars with nothing more than a knife, I've seen it happen many times before a bear not so much. However if you make already dangerous critters (that have killed many many many PC's I might add) more dangerous it literally only succeeds in killing more of the newblets that wander out first things first faster. I once had a character that dualwielded longknives, and I could literally one man bears, packs of wargs, and wolves with little more than a scratch due to my -skill- with my weapons and defensive techniques. Now if you look canon almost everyone in the fellowship killed close to a legion if not more of orcs which I honestly think would be way more dangerous when you have a massive amount attacking you at once. Not to mention, No one in Utterby would ever be able to go outside as if you haven't already noticed we lack the Combative backbone as everyone seems to want to be a leatherworker or some other craft that we didn't have as many before though they were more skilled and had a ton of combatants. Though now we are on the opposite end of the spectrum with too many crafters that aren't that great at their craft and too little combatants.

Newblets dying is less a problem with the game's difficulty level and more a problem with the failure of sphere leadership to grab newbies/drag them in/educate them(and a failure of the game to guide newbies into the clans that would do this). No amount of safety(besides 0 danger) is going to stop a newbie dying when he heads 2 dozen rooms from Utterby with neither armor nor weapon.

The danger(grievous wounds, etc.) that people refer to really just means people went out without being taught how the game works, and that'll kill you every time.

RE:being able to kill bears with knives, well. That's definitely something silly. Bears likely need some basic armor upgrades. Most everything in game needs that, truly. The danger sometimes needs to be less from upgrading base damage, and instead making things harder to kill in various ways. Like I said elsewhere, there's more than one way to make something better.


I think bears are already tough enough - they aren't that much more solidly built, and even a two-handed weapon can score only minors and moderates against them on average. They're tough, but not superman. Not to mention in modern times, people can, and have killed bears with little more than sticks and their bare (resisted making a pun here) hands.

As for the danger level, it's fine. I think no matter how hard you try to push 'the outside is dangerous', someone inevitably ventures out alone and unarmed, and that's just how it will be.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Eru » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:28 am

tehkory wrote:Newblets dying is less a problem with the game's difficulty level and more a problem with the failure of sphere leadership to grab newbies/drag them in/educate them(and a failure of the game to guide newbies into the clans that would do this). No amount of safety(besides 0 danger) is going to stop a newbie dying when he heads 2 dozen rooms from Utterby with neither armor nor weapon.


I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.

Edited to add: Please don't mess with wildlife. We did that at the start of Alpha and it took some time to find a happy medium while characters were lost as tweaks were made. If you're unhappy with a group taking down a troll, load up some more and throw them at the group to make it more of an even field.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Tykanis » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:27 pm

Well I had a whole elaborate response typed out and my mousepad highlighted while I was typing. So you just got spared a very large response. -_-

However, I would like to see unarmed weapons implimented, though I have been informed that code doesn't like items with unarmed damage modifiers or some such. If it can be made to work somehow that'd be great though.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Matt » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:39 pm

Please show me logs of a single PC killing a bear.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby tehkory » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:29 pm

I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.


We have simply very different definitions of what leadership should be doing, I suppose. This game is very incredibly weak(human-side) on 'newbie-oriented' clans, to a very painful level. That's not solely player-leadership's fault, but(this is a running theme of 'Kory's problems with Utterby' the fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation, or to making this pretend world where that sort of thing makes sense. It's the perennial problem of Utterby, and has less and less to do with individual player leadership as time goes on.

Edited to add: Please don't mess with wildlife. We did that at the start of Alpha and it took some time to find a happy medium while characters were lost as tweaks were made. If you're unhappy with a group taking down a troll, load up some more and throw them at the group to make it more of an even field.

This is a pretty poor suggestion from an Alpha player. As long as people are revived from clear bugs(and that policy exists, somewhat) whenever possible, the balance of the game needs fiddled with. Trolls in particular should not be 'lol let's throw more at them' opponents, but rare and incredibly difficult-to-kill(if not difficult to chase off or escape from). It's a poor game solution, and terribly bad at the simulation/narrative perspective.

That said, trolls aren't wildlife, but if players with adroit-ish skills and the worst weapontype in-game are taking down bears with any significant regularity...then yeah. Wildlife needs fixed, from any side of a GSN debate.

A log would be nice, of course.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Matt » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:55 pm

I'd be very very very very very very very surprised to see that log. Bears are no joke.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Justanothacivy » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:34 pm

Most bears getting killed these days are the weaker versions from the hunting craft set as far as I'm aware.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Hawkwind » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:26 am

tehkory wrote:
I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.



We have simply very different definitions of what leadership should be doing, I suppose. This game is very incredibly weak(human-side) on 'newbie-oriented' clans, to a very painful level. That's not solely player-leadership's fault, but(this is a running theme of 'Kory's problems with Utterby' the fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation, or to making this pretend world where that sort of thing makes sense. It's the perennial problem of Utterby, and has less and less to do with individual player leadership as time goes on.


I
Saying Utterby is weak on newbie-friendly clans is a complete and utter misnomer as they are for all intents and purposes the same clans we've ever had in the history of this game. What we do have is a problem entirely with veteran players, players in leadership, players playing a little too close to the Laketown Vice, Greed and selfishness, in big heaping ore-filled sacks.

A changing of the 'guard' (I use that term not just to refer to the guard) may be required, fresh, eager young blood allowed to lead, not the same clutch of PC's who normally do so. While commendable for their leadership, fatigue and weariness are very easy to tell on them and it has a trickle down effect.

II
Why would we ask staff for lore, for background, for any sort of deep meaning for the sphere when the majority will gush and fawn over it on the forums then utterly disregard it once IG as we have always done? Mutants in Atonement, Haradrim in any shape or form, warg armor, warg meat, warg anything in Utterby? No again, this is players, it should come from us and spread, it should be created between players and spread to others.

Collectively we could very easily begin establishing some fortifying documentation, lore, traditions. Something I'm sure Frigga and the lads would be more than thrilled with, be happy to read and love to stand by.

III
In my view, Uttery is spoiled, it is spoiled for choice, for decisions for everything (this both IG and OOC). Look at the orcs, admittedly a smaller sphere but they have a fraction, a mere fraction of what is available to Utterby, they have one clan and a very linear command structure yet between themselves, they thrive (recent stabby bits excluded) together. The players, both IG and OOC on the human side. Bickering, snatching, hoarding things IG and trying to find some phantom reason for lament on the forums.

The fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. Please, express clearly what you mean. Do you try to say that you are unable to find any yourself? That what is established in a fleeting, short-term sphere is not enough to warrant your playing?

There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation A sweeping generalization at best. There is the same, if not more by dint of the smaller size sphere. From my own viewings people are more than eager to chase down new players and uplift them, to motivate them, give them purpose, lead by example. But as mentioned above, it is not the higher leaders that are doing so but the 'Commoners' the unsung heros of the game that will never slay the dragon, nor take the sword from the stone.
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Re: The great wishlist

Postby Gobbo » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:12 am

Hawkwind wrote:
tehkory wrote:
I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.



We have simply very different definitions of what leadership should be doing, I suppose. This game is very incredibly weak(human-side) on 'newbie-oriented' clans, to a very painful level. That's not solely player-leadership's fault, but(this is a running theme of 'Kory's problems with Utterby' the fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation, or to making this pretend world where that sort of thing makes sense. It's the perennial problem of Utterby, and has less and less to do with individual player leadership as time goes on.


I
Saying Utterby is weak on newbie-friendly clans is a complete and utter misnomer as they are for all intents and purposes the same clans we've ever had in the history of this game. What we do have is a problem entirely with veteran players, players in leadership, players playing a little too close to the Laketown Vice, Greed and selfishness, in big heaping ore-filled sacks.

A changing of the 'guard' (I use that term not just to refer to the guard) may be required, fresh, eager young blood allowed to lead, not the same clutch of PC's who normally do so. While commendable for their leadership, fatigue and weariness are very easy to tell on them and it has a trickle down effect.

II
Why would we ask staff for lore, for background, for any sort of deep meaning for the sphere when the majority will gush and fawn over it on the forums then utterly disregard it once IG as we have always done? Mutants in Atonement, Haradrim in any shape or form, warg armor, warg meat, warg anything in Utterby? No again, this is players, it should come from us and spread, it should be created between players and spread to others.

Collectively we could very easily begin establishing some fortifying documentation, lore, traditions. Something I'm sure Frigga and the lads would be more than thrilled with, be happy to read and love to stand by.

III
In my view, Uttery is spoiled, it is spoiled for choice, for decisions for everything (this both IG and OOC). Look at the orcs, admittedly a smaller sphere but they have a fraction, a mere fraction of what is available to Utterby, they have one clan and a very linear command structure yet between themselves, they thrive (recent stabby bits excluded) together. The players, both IG and OOC on the human side. Bickering, snatching, hoarding things IG and trying to find some phantom reason for lament on the forums.

The fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. Please, express clearly what you mean. Do you try to say that you are unable to find any yourself? That what is established in a fleeting, short-term sphere is not enough to warrant your playing?

There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation A sweeping generalization at best. There is the same, if not more by dint of the smaller size sphere. From my own viewings people are more than eager to chase down new players and uplift them, to motivate them, give them purpose, lead by example. But as mentioned above, it is not the higher leaders that are doing so but the 'Commoners' the unsung heros of the game that will never slay the dragon, nor take the sword from the stone.


I: I agree, I'd like to see a changing of the guard as it were. But this has been a thing throughout the history of soi and atonement. Some players have the chops or staff trust to run a clan. But they are burned out, I can see it. I'd rather see some active less experienced types try and crash and burn.

This is partially and IC issue of people stepping up. But I think the merchant guard has never had a need for a new leader yet. The lodge doesn't require a single leader. Then there is no other real clans. The hunting company seems to be flailing after that leader pc burned out.

II: My only thing to say to flesh out Utterby is to open up roles to more types of characters from different backgrounds. Including RPP races for various forms of northmen and perhaps even easterling types.

It is really hard to play a unique role when you get to Utterby. Everyone is either a fighter or crafter with a very simple background. You must be from this area that has very limited documentation. I would enjoy some 1-2rpp races that spruce things up, letting you come from areas like Gondor and Rohan.

III: I think the orc sphere is benefiting from quite a few veteran players. Having the the player wargs already gives you a veteren player for each warg. Plus whoever is high up in the orcs. I haven't played in the sphere but I have seen plenty of orc/warg players attacking people outside Utterby which takes player knowledge and skill to do without dying instantly.

Utterby is the opposite. I see way too few veteran players. I see a ton of newbies who mill about themselves reinforcing bad habits. Without leadership to show them whats right and how to do things.

Even the pc leader of the merchant guard is sort of struggling with this. I love this guy, he is excellent at RP he is clearly a vet. But I consider myself a vet too so I'm able to get this leader's attention and one on one focus. Unfortunately this guy is clearly burning out, he didn't log on much before, now hes logging in to focus his time on the vet players that remain. Completely leaving the recruits and privates of the guard to themselves.

I completely understand and feel for his pain. Its so hard to teach and groom these newbies for responsibility. I have a solution that I will post in the merchant guard thread.
Gobbo
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:01 am

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