It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:23 am
Change font size

General Discussion

Alpha Play!

Discuss game issues here.

Moderator: Elder Staff

Alpha Play!

Postby Octavius » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:03 am

Starting some discussions to gather your thoughts, players! These are written by me, and thus unofficial. These threads are invitations for you to participate in some brainstorming, which Icarus and Frigga may choose to incorporate. This is what's in the back of my head as I'm building things, so I'll open it up for comment.

As Icarus already revealed on the other thread, our Alpha will be focused on Utterby, a lumber camp at the edge of the Mirkwood forest. It will also include an Orc setting for play in the Mirkwood mountains.

For the combat types: conflict centers on venturing into the forest in search of rare woods that are desirable for trade. The orcs in the forest provide PvP, and worse things among the trees feed on orc and man alike.

Proposed Combatant Roles- these are ideas that I have in my head as I design. I would suggest not having a formal military order for the wood camp setting. I'll add these to the brainstorm instead.

Woodsman: The core lumberjacks of the camp, they are adept at navigating the forest and understanding what lies within well enough to return each night with resources from its depths. A woodsman's axe is both the tool of the trade and a weapon when one is needed to deal with a big bad wolf.
Core Skills:
Scavenge (Timber scouting, Herb gathering)
Bludgeon (use of axes)
Sneak
Hide
Woodcraft

Huntsman: A huntsman works with his brethren to resolve the everpresent threats of the forest. They can protect woodsmen in their duties, gather for hunts to bring in needed game, work to keep the menace of orcs and worse contained.
Core Skills:
Hunting (tracking, laying and disarming traps and snares, scouting useful game)
Shortbow
Polearm (long spears preferred against dangerous game)
Butchery (includes skinning, smoking, etc)

Merchant Guard: You are a skilled combatant who arrived with the merchants from places beyond Utterby's small walls but who has found reason to stay and lend your arm to the efforts of this small burg.
Core Skills:
Longblade (for the swords of trained combatants)
Dual-Wield (provides specialization on a sword-and-shield style)
First-Aid (keeping alive on journeys is first priority)
Handle (riding, ostler)

Wood-wives: On the edge of the Mirkwood, none is safe from either grief or duty. The Wood Wives, also known as the Daughters of Nienna, are a group of women (often widows) who stand with the men against the forest with strength of spirit, wisdom, and healing.
Core Skills:
Polearm (skill with a long spear)
First-Aid (Ensuring all come home)
Gardening (Cultured plants, funerary flowers, herbalism)
Scavenge (foraging of berries, gathering herbs)


Proposed Town Roles - For those that stay within the town of Utterby, there is a good base of trade and all the roles that help make life palatable for those returning from the dark forest.

Wood, and anything made from wood, will be plentiful. Crafts and skills for cooking, baking, and brewing will be plentiful. Leather goods, clothing, and armors will come naturally from the beasts of the wood. Metal will be harder to come by, and metal armors will likely be restricted. Decent metal weapons are serious commodities.

The new code includes two important new aspects that are changed from SOI2 - variables allow items to have a degree of functional customization which allows items to not all be identical in how they work. Artistry then allows decorative customization of many items, custom works of art (wood carvings, paintings, statuary, etc).

Some initial thoughts...

Physician - Gardening, First-Aid, Medicine, Education
Weaponsmith - Metalcraft, Woodcraft, Artistry
Armorsmith - Leathercraft, Metalcraft, Artistry
Clothier - Textilecraft, Leathercraft, Artistry
Trader - Haggle, Education, Artistry, craft skill of choice
Builder/Architect - Woodcraft, Stonecraft, Education, Artistry
Farmer - Farming, Husbandry, Butchery, Woodcraft (fences, barn-raising, etc)
Rancher - Husbandry, Butchery, Leathercraft, Handle
Farm Cook - Gardening, Cooking, Baking, Handicrafts
Farm Wife- Cooking, Textilecraft, Handicraft, Leathercraft


Please feel free to add to this thread, discuss, and brainstorm. This is an open thread to get ideas flowing among the playerbase regarding Alpha.

:D
User avatar
Octavius
Journeyman Architect
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Hawkwind » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:35 pm

Might we have something similar to the bards and storytellers too? Also, on the related note with the carpentry, where this is an abundance of timber there is also an abundance of charcoal manufacturing!
JESUS CHRIST, THE HELIUM!
PS4 Handle - Roadhawkes
Tags Taken: Eru I, Mavinero I.
User avatar
Hawkwind
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:46 am
Location: Volga Matushka

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:31 pm

woods·man [woodz-muhn] Show IPA
noun, plural woods·men.
1. Also, woodman. a person accustomed to life in the woods and skilled in the arts of the woods, as hunting or trapping.
2. a lumberman.


In my opinion, there's a big difference between a person living in the woods, hunting and trapping and a person who cuts trees down and makes lumber. Even though they share the same name.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Octavius » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:27 am

Emilio wrote:
woods·man [woodz-muhn] Show IPA
noun, plural woods·men.
1. Also, woodman. a person accustomed to life in the woods and skilled in the arts of the woods, as hunting or trapping.
2. a lumberman.


In my opinion, there's a big difference between a person living in the woods, hunting and trapping and a person who cuts trees down and makes lumber. Even though they share the same name.


I agree. They are differentiated above as Woodsman and Huntsman. Does that work?

Hawkwind wrote:Might we have something similar to the bards and storytellers too?

Yes, Icarus approves having a Music skill for memorable performance and storytelling, etc. Please brainstorm on the other thread about that... we are reading for ideas as we plan to build.

Hawkwind wrote:Also, on the related note with the carpentry, where this is an abundance of timber there is also an abundance of charcoal manufacturing!


A good idea for a bulk export good; do you also have uses for PCs in mind?
User avatar
Octavius
Journeyman Architect
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Frigga » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:43 am

A good idea for a bulk export good; do you also have uses for PCs in mind?


Charcoal could be useful for:

- For artistic types
- As a fertilizer
- As medicine (charcoal biscuits anyone?)
User avatar
Frigga
The Ice Queen
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:51 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Brian » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:55 am

I believe charcoal was most important historically as a fuel source for industrial processes. It was the primary fuel source for all iron smelting and forge working, so there would indeed be a large demand for it, though it can be made wherever there are trees.
User avatar
Brian
Honored Elf
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:56 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Octavius » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:10 pm

Brian wrote:I believe charcoal was most important historically as a fuel source for industrial processes. It was the primary fuel source for all iron smelting and forge working, so there would indeed be a large demand for it, though it can be made wherever there are trees.


Yes... I can imagine sending it as a bulk commodity up-river to the Iron Hills. No problem with that.

Charcoal for medicinal use is specifically "Active Charcoal" which requires high-firing in a kiln. This actually still has crafts and logic from SOI2 that are already in place, so will easily reappear in the Medicine craftset. It is a RP-only cure for most ingested poisons (which are also RP-only / staff plotline). So, an idea for how to make it have a coded use would be the next step for it.

PCs will use it for smelting and forging, but we won't have too much of that in Alpha - metalcraft will be more limited in that environment.

Making charcoal pencils for Artistry kits is totally doable. Good idea.

I'd like to know more about its use as fertilizer.

What other PC uses can we devise?
User avatar
Octavius
Journeyman Architect
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:31 pm

Octavius wrote:What other PC uses can we devise?


Body painting, facial makeup, trail marking, writing signs, shields' markings, painting the feathers of arrows, painting weapons, graffiti, etc.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Octavius » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Thanks. :)

Once we make it an Artistry tool, it can decorate things that are decoratable.


Anyone have comments on the Combat Roles above? That's the first coming project, as we devise the woodlands they work in.
User avatar
Octavius
Journeyman Architect
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:24 pm

I would add Town guards and militia(warriors).

war·ri·or [wawr-ee-er, wawr-yer, wor-ee-er, wor-yer] Show IPA
noun
1.a person engaged or experienced in warfare; soldier.
2.a person who shows or has shown great vigor, courage, or aggressiveness, as in politics or athletics.


Something like this:
Viking Warrior Armour
The Viking warriors were most likely a mismatched looking bunch with varying degrees of armour that would cover mostly the head and the chest area. Helmets were often made from leather, metal or a combination of both, tight fitting to be suitable for use in battle. The often seen Viking horns were more fiction than fact, and would have made the helmets unwieldy to wear and rather impractical. If the metal used for the helmet was limited it would be placed in strategic positions like the bridge of the nose and above or around the eyes. The clothing worn by the Vikings would usually be a tunic covered by some leather outer coat or jacket; this would keep them warm but allow them flexibility in battle.

Viking Warriors and their Weapons and Arms
The battleaxe was the most well known Viking warrior weapon, with some believing they favoured the rather easier to wield sword for most of their combat. The sword would be a top quality item well made and crafted in a two tone style metal. The axe was sometimes also carried in a smaller form used for throwing, most Vikings would probably also own a spear and a knife to round off their armoury of weapons.

For defence the Viking warriors relied on shields and this was a big part of their attack and defence strategy. shields were thought to be round, but triangular shields have been found as well. For defence against arrows a Viking would need his shield and in the throes of battle, it would be used to deflect melee blows and strikes from the enemies close combat weapons.


Well, I'm too lazy to make a short description. But, what I want to do in game is to fish or general work wearing normal clothing with a fur coat or leather jacket and go to battle with a metal helmet, a single-handed battle-axe, a wooden or metal round shield, two throwing axes and a long knife.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Octavius » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:06 pm

Octavius wrote:I would suggest not having a formal military order for the wood camp setting.


Player input on that, then... for a lumber camp on the edge of Mirkwood, do you desire an organized military, or do the roles above do it for you?
User avatar
Octavius
Journeyman Architect
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:31 pm

I prefer not to have an organized military. Although, I can see the town leader having some guys to enforce the laws and for his own protection as well as to guard the most vital properties in the city like the market and the town main hall, but, they have to stay within the confines of the town unless and very unlikely to happen that the leader decides to go out of town.

In my opinion, the militia, if we decide to call it that, is led by the most prominent warrior. This place isn't like Gondor. We shouldn't have professional soldiers.

Think like a 19th century western town. We all know how to use our weapons, but, we're mostly preoccupied in our daily lives and jobs. When the hunters and woodsmen sight an orc warring party, they send word to the city. The bell or horn is sounded, all warriors muster ready to fight at the main square and then when they're all assembled, move out to fight.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Tepes » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:27 pm

Personally, I like games.

With that said, I heard it's predicted that Alpha will be out in two weeks?

(I said it first, suckers.)
User avatar
Tepes
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:19 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Frigga » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:57 pm

In my experience, having more than one competing body for combat-types within the same playing can lead to problems. First and foremost that the number of people interested in military roles are then split between two (or more) competing clans, reducing people for patrols/activities. Which, I think particularly when we are looking to build up numbers during Alpha might not be the best idea.

I think there may be a middle-ground between purely a militia and professional soldiers within the same vein we saw in Gondor, or even the experience we had during the SOI3 Beta. In the previous "Northlands" areas of the game - Angost and Caolafon, we previously had a single clan which was a combined law enforcement and military force. Which was my intent for our Alpha town.

Although, I can see the town leader having some guys to enforce the laws and for his own protection as well as to guard the most vital properties in the city like the market and the town main hall,


And that there is the main idea, that the town leader - Utterby's Overseer, Gararic Omdahl, understands the importance of protecting his investment. He is thus willing to pay people from the profits of the lumbering to protect it. They serve as his voice by enforcing the laws, and protect the town and it's income by both offense and defense, and are paid for it, given the inherent risk and danger they are undertaking. They are professionals then in the sense that this is their primary livlihood for which they are paid and that they take an honor-biding Oath to fulfill this duty during the term of their enlistment.

However, unlike previous professional incarnations where soldiers are forbidden (or heavily discouraged) from pursuing any other outside activities, I have no doubt the Utterby Guards would pursue other sidelines or activities during their furloughs. Fishing in the morning before training, etc.

This is how things worked before as noted in the Northlands play areas, and seemed to work well. (Though perhaps some former players can chime in if my assumption is correct.)

In my opinion, the militia, if we decide to call it that, is led by the most prominent warrior.


No doubt the Marshal has a fair reputation as a warrior and strategist, and who he'd pick as his highest officers would be those best able to serve their duties. However, being the prime physical warrior isn't neccessarily the best for leadership.

(I mean, I'll just point to say - Admiral Adama of Battlestar Galatica for an example.)

When the hunters and woodsmen sight an orc warring party, they send word to the city. The bell or horn is sounded, all warriors muster ready to fight at the main square and then when they're all assembled, move out to fight.


I'd say that makes sense, and I'd agree. This is the time to call up the militia, meaning all citizens of age to defend the town if need be - when orcs are approaching town. This is a small palisade surrounded settlement. Any direct invasion will be like Helm's Deep and need every able bodied man at a post, that's my thoughts at least.

So, the only thought we may disagree about it, is having two separate clans for handling things inside and outside, otherwise, I agree with you.
User avatar
Frigga
The Ice Queen
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:51 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:06 am

I'm not actually proposing to create two fighting clans. It's just a mere coincidence that different activities give the impresion of two different clans. It is better to keep all fighting men together in this setting.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Octavius » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:31 am

Thanks Frigga!

I imagine that huntsmen and woodsmen fit in the militia. Then, add something like this?

Utterby Guardsmen - these individuals focus on bringing battle to the orcs and protecting the town and its folk through force or arms.
Core Skills:
Longblade (for the swords of trained combatants)
Dual-Wield (provides specialization on a sword-and-shield style)
Hunting (disarming traps and tracking foes is a must when facing orcs)
Another skill of choice for other duties and previous livelihood... first aid, fishing, farming, or a craft.
User avatar
Octavius
Journeyman Architect
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Frigga » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:52 am

I imagine that huntsmen and woodsmen fit in the militia. Then, add something like this?


Indeed. :D

I'd probably have that replace the original proposed "Merchant Guard" role. Also, probably with some weapon options (being in yon North, I'd probably offer Sword, Spear, Axe.) You could then have an equivalent Guardsman Archer/Scout role.

When you have people who inevitably don't want to officially join the Guard (IE take the Oath) but who on occasion want to join outbound patrols, I'd establish a firm guideline that they do so under their own risk (IE - I cannot guarantee his safety, Gandalf), that they do so as a volunteer, and that regardless of martial prowess will be considered a Recruit during the patrol and that they will obey all orders.
User avatar
Frigga
The Ice Queen
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:51 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Tepes » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:55 am

I like the idea behind the people who don't want to Oath up, but are allowed to go and considered a recruit.
User avatar
Tepes
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:19 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Letters » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:20 am

Red tape around who can go for walks in the woods with the local militia and rules they must follow sounds like it could be stifling or counterproductive. Perhaps something best left to the discretion of the leader of any given group? Which would probably be how it worked out in practice anyway.

On a different note, I'd rather see either spears or axes be the weapon of choice for most, instead of swords. Decent swords would probably be pricey things.
A skeletal, pig-tailed-haired male teen says,
"Prepare to meet your doom, loping man. It is I, loitering person, your nemesis."
Letters
Elf Recruit
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:24 am

What I really have in my mind is inspired from the TV series, Vikings. If you have seen it, you know what I'm saying. I prefer that players have a bit of freedom in question of what arms they want to use, how much armor they can afford, material and design rather than limiting their choices by using character packages. Like I mentioned before, I want to be a fishingman, but, I want the right of bearing arms and armor and participate in the defense of the town hence militia or warrior.

And, by the way, when a new leader is appointed, he has to swear an oath as well as every capable man have to swear an allegiance to the town and its leader, not just his guards. A leader without the people, he's nothing. The people without a leader, they're nothing. Pretty much, Laketown is not run by a dictator, but, by the community. The survival of the village depends on everyone, not just a handful of guards.

The way I see this is the same as the first colonists in the New World.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Frigga » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:00 am

Red tape around who can go for walks in the woods with the local militia and rules they must follow sounds like it could be stifling or counterproductive.


In my experience, not having a set rule and expectation about people on official patrols leads to an inordinate amount of time being wasted arguing about it during said patrols.

Which - is particularly daunting when those involved only have a set amount of time to be online for the activity, and more than a fair position is taken up with arguing whether Bob the Fisherman who happens to want to join this time should have to take orders from the Sergeant leading the patrol. (Well ... he's not -my- Sergeant.) I think nipping that in the bud, to the degree it's possible is a worthwhile endeavor.

From an IC stand-point, having people who won't take orders or worse, directly disobey them is dangerous if not deadly in enemy territory. You can't have chaos when everyone follows their own orders. Even Orcs know that, hence where there's a whip, there's a way. ;)

It's not ultimately about red-tape, or the idea would be no folks allowed who aren't official military. (Which has been a rule at various points in SOI's history.) It's more establishing that any citizen who hasn't earned another military rank will be considered a Recruit. And thus, -all citizens- are expected to respond accordingly when given orders by officers.

Be that when they choose to join a patrols, when the militia is called up during an active seige, or a fire-bucket brigade.

Orcs don't have these kind of debates of course, if you don't listen to a higher-up or worse, directly disobey him, he probably kills you just to show what will happen to the next guy. ;) Men however, look towards handling these things with social expectations and laws.

Perhaps something best left to the discretion of the leader of any given group? Which would probably be how it worked out in practice anyway.


In practice, yes, things would be left up to the highest ranking person leading the patrol. It's more that everyone understands the expectations.
User avatar
Frigga
The Ice Queen
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:51 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:59 am

The Varangians or Varyags (Old Norse: Væringjar; Greek: Βάραγγοι, Βαριάγοι, Varangoi, Variagoi) was the name given by Greeks and East Slavs to Vikings,[1][2][3][4] who between the 9th and 11th centuries ruled the medieval state of Rus' and formed the Byzantine Varangian Guard.[5][6]

Greek Várangos and Old East Slavic varęgŭ are derived from Old Norse væringi, originally a compound of vár "pledge" and gengi "companion", i.e. "a sworn person" or "a foreigner who has taken service with a new lord by a treaty of fealty to him, or protégé".[1][12] Some scholars seem to assume a derivation with the common suffix -ing-.[13] Yet, this suffix is inflected differently in Old Norse, and furthermore, the word is attested with -gangia- in other Germanic languages in the Early Middle Ages: Old English wærgenga, Old Frankish wargengus, Langobardic waregang.[14] The reduction of the second part of the word is parallel to that seen in Old Norse foringi "leader" = Old English foregenga, Gothic fauragangja "steward".[15][16]


Well, pretty much, Varangian or Varyag means "sworn person". So we could call the professional soldiers, Varangian guards.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby Emilio » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:25 pm

Using a translator from English to Swedish, I've got this: militia - milis, lantvärn. We could use either to mean militia in Dalish.

Also, I prefer to keep recruits and militia apart. Recruit is a newly enlisted or drafted member of the armed forces while militia may include men who have spent many years fighting including former guards who left the force for one reason or another like reaching the maximum age of military service as a guard, but, still capable to fight. Also, these latter men should be addressed with the rank they beheld when discharged as a matter of honor and respect.
User avatar
Emilio
Honored Dwarf
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Galicia, Spain

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby toofast » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:31 pm

So alpha is confirmed to open in two weeks?
User avatar
toofast
Elf Recruit
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Alpha Play!

Postby tehkory » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:43 pm

toofastnig wrote:So alpha is confirmed to open in two weeks?

That's a joke from Atonement/Parallel; beta was to come out in "two weeks," and opened six-seven months later, so it's commonly joked that a release date will be in "two weeks."
tehkory
Master Ent
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:21 pm

Next

Return to General Discussion

cron

Connect

FacebookTwitter

Login

Who is online

Very smart users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login