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Progress!!

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Re: Progress!!

Postby Tepes » Wed May 14, 2014 3:28 pm

IF you aren't logged in for some reason, you can see other PCs in the stable.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Wed May 14, 2014 4:10 pm

Icristhus wrote:Would it be possible to give a little bit of transparency here for guiding people like me, without requiring months of trial and error and also without destroying the sense of mystique?


I will be giving some general information on how attributes are set without giving away the farm. It's fairly complex, so I can't just blurt it out in a few words. Examples are needed to understand the process without giving away the exact method. Watch for a post from me on this yet tonight.

I'm going to hold off on answering your other questions as my final post will provide as much insight as we're going to give on the method.

Thanks,

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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Wed May 14, 2014 4:11 pm

Tepes wrote:IF you aren't logged in for some reason, you can see other PCs in the stable.


Hmmm.... this is not good. Did you try to click on one of them? Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, you can see OTHER player's characters in your stable when you're not logged in?
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Wed May 14, 2014 4:13 pm

Icristhus wrote:One other item:

Tonight, I can't seem to select any of the following nine skills, which happen to be in a grid in the upper right of the skill selection screen:

Baking, Bludgeon, Brawling,
Cooking, Crossbow, Earthencraft,
First-Aid, Fishing, Forage,

Neither the checkboxes, words, or ?'s are valid, selectable items at the moment, all other skills, checkboxes, and help signs are as clickable as ever.

The 'Save Skills' button at the bottom likewise appears to be broken.

I've tried both Internet Explorer and Google Chrome, and I've also tried resetting both browsers (close/relaunch) and clearing their cache/cookies.

I can verify these buttons/links all worked correctly for me at this time yesterday.


Yes, I'm having issues with the help modals (pop ups). These seem to be giving me fits for some reason. I spent about 5 hours troubleshooting last night and possibly made the situation worse. :(

I'm working on it.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Wed May 14, 2014 4:15 pm

Throttle wrote:I can't actually submit applications now. It gets to the last screen and the submit button is gone. I have no pending applications or anything. Also, there seems to be no way to delete stabled applications.

As for the stats, Nimrod, could you maybe roll up ten dummy characters with different stat setups and show the stat levels they came out with as well as their priorities? It'll help us get an idea of how it works and what kinds of stats are produced by different inputs.


If the submit button is gone, that means something is not filled out completely. Check all the descs, skills, stats, etc...

No, we're not going to give out exact attribute numbers out. Sorry. I will be making a post on how attribute prioritization works in a general sense. Watch for it in this forum.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Wed May 14, 2014 4:17 pm

Matt wrote:Should probably post a staff announcement about rolling characters.


This is called a 'soft-opening'. Opening chargen with little fanfare so we can test and fix bugs. We've already got enough stuff to tweak as it is, so inviting even more folks to create characters is something I don't want at this time. :)

I appreciate everyone's patience as we work through the issues. When we get things resolved we'll definitely be making a more public announcement.

:)
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Wed May 14, 2014 5:03 pm

I just got done writing up a description of the attribute assignment process:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=582
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Throttle » Wed May 14, 2014 8:32 pm

No, we're not going to give out exact attribute numbers out. Sorry. I will be making a post on how attribute prioritization works in a general sense. Watch for it in this forum.


I didn't mean numbers, I meant you could roll up some sample characters with various sets of stat priorities and show what they came out as in the format players will see, i.e. poor/avg/good/great/peak. Just a suggestion. It would make it easier to understand how stats are influenced by priorities in more than the most general sense.

If the submit button is gone, that means something is not filled out completely. Check all the descs, skills, stats, etc...


Apparently the problem is that the background field doesn't count as filled out if you put too little text there. I had "test background 1" and this didn't qualify for submission. However, it doesnt't say anywhere that this is the reason. More importantly, it doesn't seem possible to change this; filling it out on the final screen doesn't make the submit button appear, so one is stuck with an unsubmittable stabled application (which can't be deleted, by the way).
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Matt » Wed May 14, 2014 10:36 pm

Have I mentioned how much I hate the diagonals?
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Thu May 15, 2014 12:24 am

Throttle wrote:Apparently the problem is that the background field doesn't count as filled out if you put too little text there. I had "test background 1" and this didn't qualify for submission. However, it doesnt't say anywhere that this is the reason. More importantly, it doesn't seem possible to change this; filling it out on the final screen doesn't make the submit button appear, so one is stuck with an unsubmittable stabled application (which can't be deleted, by the way).


Hrm... I see the submit button is kind of whacky in its placement now. It's to the right of the text box that shows your background. (This was added to show line breaks in your background).

I'll move that back to the bottom either tonight or tomorrow.

As far as being able to edit your background. You actually have to click on the 'edit background' link. The text box on the overview page does allow you to change it, but it's not actually a form so there's no way to update it. I'll disable the text box so it's not editable. Apologies to all for the inconvenience on that.

I'll add a note on the background page stating that it needs to be a certain minimum length before the application can be submitted. (My plan was to also include a list of things that needed attention on the overview page, so if the submit button doesn't show up, it lets you know why, but that's in the future.)
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Thu May 15, 2014 12:27 am

Matt wrote:Have I mentioned how much I hate the diagonals?


Awww... you don't like upnorthwest and downsouthwest as directions? I'm sorry to hear that. We're working very hard to keep the number of directions in a room down to a manageable level. Having more than 6 or so exits in a room is one of my pet peeves. The diagonal and elevation directions allow for a much more realistic scene when climbing mountains and such. I think it's pretty groovy for that.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby krelm » Thu May 15, 2014 12:46 am

I honestly hate it a lot, too. Typing 'dsw' or whatever is kind of annoying, and having 8 exits in every room out in the wilderness is also super annoying.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Throttle » Thu May 15, 2014 12:58 am

I'm willing to give it a chance, but it's just so against general MUD instinct, it's like trying to draw in four dimensions. I've never been able to get a good intuitive feel of areas with diagonal directions, it simply doesn't register properly in my mind after fifteen years of dealing only with the cardinal directions. Shouldn't really naysay before we've tried it, though.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby pompadourslim » Thu May 15, 2014 1:29 am

I'm eager to try out the non-traditional directions. Being confined to cardinal directions has always seemed very artificial to me, and hard to form a mental image of real topography from. Chasing, fleeing and/or speedwalking might be less of a no-brainer, but I'm not totally sure that's a bad thing.

It may end up being more of a hassle than a revelation, but there's only one way to find out. Personally, I think trying new things and (potentially) discovering they don't work is almost always better than keeping with tradition for tradition's sake.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Tepes » Thu May 15, 2014 5:54 am

Pssssllliiiiim!
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Matt » Thu May 15, 2014 7:22 am

Well, with diagonal directions you have some definite negatives that I can see.

-You increase the chance of PCs being spotted by aggro NPCs by up to 100%.

-When a prey NPC flees it runs two runs usually. When you have diagonals it makes tracking them down that much harder, like a lot harder.

-Makes PC fleeing so so so much easier. You get hit with an arrow and you can type three directions and your enemies will have a seriously hard time finding you. Not to mention all those other rooms to spam through after that.

-Decreases distance traveled, which I guess can be a positive as well. But when you throw diagonals in people will be able to travel much further distances much faster. If you're engaged by enemies across the map spamming off in diagonals can get you home much faster.

What real positives do we get out of having diagonals besides 'oh, it's pretty nifty'? I think it's a good idea in theory but it'll have large effects on the game that'll have to be accounted for.
Last edited by Matt on Thu May 15, 2014 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby toofast » Thu May 15, 2014 7:30 am

I agree with Matt's post, I despise diagonals. Definitely when a large portion of the game world is going to be a forest. Good luck bow users and set run n ne ne e too OP. Gonna be too easy to get away from a tough situation.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Tepes » Thu May 15, 2014 9:33 am

This is why it is ALPHA, to see how it all works out.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Hawkwind » Thu May 15, 2014 11:03 am

Tepes seems to know the deal, the staff know our thoughts on the matter. We try we will it. Kudos on the chargen system its sleek, quick and easier than the old system.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Nimrod » Thu May 15, 2014 12:40 pm

Tepes wrote:This is why it is ALPHA, to see how it all works out.


Tepes has the right of it here. I was extremely skeptical of diagonals before. I hope they work out, but if they don't we simply take them out where we don't want them.

I appreciate reading everyone's comments on the matter, both good and bad. Thank you for putting it out there.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Meneldor » Thu May 15, 2014 1:07 pm

Matt wrote:Well, with diagonal directions you have some definite negatives that I can see.

-You increase the chance of PCs being spotted by aggro NPCs by up to 100%.

-When a prey NPC flees it runs two runs usually. When you have diagonals it makes tracking them down that much harder, like a lot harder.

-Makes PC fleeing so so so much easier. You get hit with an arrow and you can type three directions and your enemies will have a seriously hard time finding you. Not to mention all those other rooms to spam through after that.

-Decreases distance traveled, which I guess can be a positive as well. But when you throw diagonals in people will be able to travel much further distances much faster. If you're engaged by enemies across the map spamming off in diagonals can get you home much faster.

What real positives do we get out of having diagonals besides 'oh, it's pretty nifty'? I think it's a good idea in theory but it'll have large effects on the game that'll have to be accounted for.


The first MUD I ever played had them, so maybe I'm just used to them, but to me it is more real with them. A deer running north then turning northwest is...well real. So it being harder to track them is more...well real. Like I said maybe being used to them makes a difference, but I have no issues with them.

ETA: Personally, I'd rather discuss cutting down how many rooms you can scan through. This is Mirkwood after all. Stumbling into things, people you can't see would be marvelous. :)
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Re: Progress!!

Postby toofast » Thu May 15, 2014 1:11 pm

It's a matter of realism vs gameplay and I think in this case the negative gameplay effects outshine the added realism. Anyway, they're right. It's ALPHA and I'm pumped to get in game.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby hobbitboots » Thu May 15, 2014 1:58 pm

Icristhus wrote:One other item:

Tonight, I can't seem to select any of the following nine skills, which happen to be in a grid in the upper right of the skill selection screen:

Baking, Bludgeon, Brawling,
Cooking, Crossbow, Earthencraft,
First-Aid, Fishing, Forage,

Neither the checkboxes, words, or ?'s are valid, selectable items at the moment, all other skills, checkboxes, and help signs are as clickable as ever.

The 'Save Skills' button at the bottom likewise appears to be broken.

I've tried both Internet Explorer and Google Chrome, and I've also tried resetting both browsers (close/relaunch) and clearing their cache/cookies.

I can verify these buttons/links all worked correctly for me at this time yesterday.


I ran into this bug, too, but I found a work around which might also serve as a debugging clue.

Click on Information and after you close it, you'll find that the tic boxes work as expected.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Kayube » Thu May 15, 2014 3:37 pm

What I ended up doing when that happened to me was using the tab key and the space bar to highlight the buttons and check them that way.
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Re: Progress!!

Postby Icristhus » Thu May 15, 2014 8:23 pm

Tepes wrote:IF you aren't logged in for some reason, you can see other PCs in the stable.

I've noticed this myself.

It was the same PC for several days (Name: Castien)

Now there are two of them in the stable: Castien and Billis.

I don't appear to be logged into any account whatsoever, but I still have access to a character stable with those two in it, and am able to access them and apparently tweak them to my heart's content (though I haven't tried to change anything on them)

I honestly assumed it was just an example of chargen or something like that, at first. When I log back in I see my own stable without issue.
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