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Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:06 pm
by Nyneve
A little off-topic, but what are the real applications of a skill like music?

Is it useful for something? Is there a command you can use for cool songthings? I know there's 'sing,' but I'm fairly certain everyone has that.

What are the coded benefits of that skill? What's to stop someone without that skill from saying they're a fantastic bard with a killer soprano?

Essentially, what does it do, does it matter, or is it a total waste and just for flair?

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:11 pm
by Jeshin
Music allows you to add stories/songs to the gameworld lore. Basically you have McBard and McWarrior. They meet and McBard composes a song of McWarrio's great deeds. Then if they both die some NPC might sing that song.

Or so it was stated in another thread.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:16 pm
by EltanimRas
Octavius wrote:Music - This is the ability to use sound to move men's hearts, be it by instrument, song, or tale. There will be a "play" command for instruments that echoes the quality of music to the room. There will be supported crafts to help with the spread of tales and lore (players adding to the permanent history of the game).

- Musicianship
- Taletelling

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:19 pm
by Nyneve
Thank you both! I've typed "help music" so many times and never once thought to change the wording. I must have missed that other thread. You're gems. Have a cheese bun!

:nom:

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:17 am
by RiderOnTheStorm
Er.

What do these do? Okay, something uses X + Y. What does that mean? I assumed it affected the skill cap, but I'm guessing not, since I just capped at talented in something I have a really high and an okay stat in. (The first being intelligence, oddly enough.)

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:31 am
by Matt
It looks like the second stats are the important ones. In that case it's stat+statx3 when it comes to the stats themselves in the equation.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:37 am
by someguy
Matt wrote:It looks like the second stats are the important ones. In that case it's stat+statx3 when it comes to the stats themselves in the equation.
Lame.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:39 am
by MrDvAnt
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Er.

What do these do? Okay, something uses X + Y. What does that mean? I assumed it affected the skill cap, but I'm guessing not, since I just capped at talented in something I have a really high and an okay stat in. (The first being intelligence, oddly enough.)
How do you know you capped? Does it tell you?

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:45 am
by tehkory
MrDvAnt wrote:
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Er.

What do these do? Okay, something uses X + Y. What does that mean? I assumed it affected the skill cap, but I'm guessing not, since I just capped at talented in something I have a really high and an okay stat in. (The first being intelligence, oddly enough.)
How do you know you capped? Does it tell you?

The skill turns yellow when you type skills. Help ignore and help focus may hold this info.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:50 am
by MrDvAnt
tehkory wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Er.

What do these do? Okay, something uses X + Y. What does that mean? I assumed it affected the skill cap, but I'm guessing not, since I just capped at talented in something I have a really high and an okay stat in. (The first being intelligence, oddly enough.)
How do you know you capped? Does it tell you?

The skill turns yellow when you type skills. Help ignore and help focus may hold this info.
Ahh, good to know. Guess I've never capped any skills, unless this feature wasn't in the old SoI.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:52 am
by Songweaver
Each skill is different in how it determines its max cap. Some skills might use an equation like 10 + 1xStrength + 2xAgility +2xWillpower, but others may be set up entirely differently. The "second" skill (according to the wiki page) is not always the important one.

But, it's important to remember that Willpower is part of the equation for any max cap. Also know that "talented" is actually pretty good. The way that these skills have been set up, you just are not going to see some of the incredibly high skill caps that you did in Atonement. Hitting Master in a skill will be more of a rare thing, much like it was in old SOI.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:56 am
by RiderOnTheStorm
I used focus on the skill in question and it is not yellow anymore. Does that mean I can keep getting better at it? Focus seems to state it only comes into play for the overall skill cap, not individual ones. But...not yellow now.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:56 am
by BoogtehWoog
Thanks for the information, Songweaver.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:59 am
by tehkory
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:I used focus on the skill in question and it is not yellow anymore. Does that mean I can keep getting better at it? Focus seems to state it only comes into play for the overall skill cap, not individual ones. But...not yellow now.
No. Focus only comes into play when you hit your total cap for all skills combined.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:04 pm
by krelm
On focus, and ignore:

Say you have poor int, and you've hit your cap of 500 points, but you don't like your build, and you want to tweak it.

So, longbow is yellow-capped out, but long-blade isn't, and you really want master long-blade, and your bow got eaten by orcs anyway.

So, you type 'focus long-blade.' This means that you'll continue to raise the long-blade skill at the expense of your other skills. So, if your long-blade skill goes up a point, your longbow skill will lose a point.

Now, you also have hide yellow-capped, and you like it there. So you think to yourself, I want to keep hide exactly at that place, no matter what.

Then, you type 'ignore hide.' That way, if you gain a point of long-blade, it won't suck point away from hide. Ignore will also keep skills from raising higher-- it makes them static, basically.

Further, as far as I'm aware, you'll never lose a point from a skill you have focused, as well.

So, these two commands aren't particularly useful unless you've hit your INT cap, or somehow know that you're closing onto it, but once you're capped, they allow you to tweak your build around some.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:47 pm
by MrDvAnt
krelm wrote:On focus, and ignore:

Say you have poor int, and you've hit your cap of 500 points, but you don't like your build, and you want to tweak it.

So, longbow is yellow-capped out, but long-blade isn't, and you really want master long-blade, and your bow got eaten by orcs anyway.

So, you type 'focus long-blade.' This means that you'll continue to raise the long-blade skill at the expense of your other skills. So, if your long-blade skill goes up a point, your longbow skill will lose a point.

Now, you also have hide yellow-capped, and you like it there. So you think to yourself, I want to keep hide exactly at that place, no matter what.

Then, you type 'ignore hide.' That way, if you gain a point of long-blade, it won't suck point away from hide. Ignore will also keep skills from raising higher-- it makes them static, basically.

Further, as far as I'm aware, you'll never lose a point from a skill you have focused, as well.

So, these two commands aren't particularly useful unless you've hit your INT cap, or somehow know that you're closing onto it, but once you're capped, they allow you to tweak your build around some.
Thank you for this. I wasn't aware of the focus/ignore commands at all and was wondering how they worked. Now I just have to have a character survive long enough to need to use them. :p

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:57 pm
by RiderOnTheStorm
Are there any plans to ever make dodge useful?

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:13 pm
by kestrel
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Are there any plans to ever make dodge useful?
This has been asked for about a decade, now. My guess is it's a "no", just because you're talking about a non-trivial change to the combat code that would require a ton of testing to make sure everything stays balanced.

Just my two cents, though!

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:16 pm
by RiderOnTheStorm
Hah, alright, didn't realize it's been that way for so long, thanks.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:16 pm
by Throttle
The only real problem is that it's misleading to people who don't know about it. People see a dodge skill and understandably assume that it works like it does in just about every other game that has ever existed.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:13 am
by radioactivejesus
what's the deal with longbows using dex and int instead of dex and str? I could have a Harvard education and be a genius, but it's not going to help much when I need to pull back a 120lb draw weight longbow with just my fingertips.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:09 am
by RiderOnTheStorm
It is however going to help you account for wind/etc on the longer shot.

Also probably a game balance issue, which makes sense. Str is a melee stat and already one of the most popular stats. Being stronger isn't going to make you a better shot.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:20 am
by jdidds
What is focus and ignore? Totally new commands for my oldie ears.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:22 am
by Letters
radioactivejesus wrote:what's the deal with longbows using dex and int instead of dex and str? I could have a Harvard education and be a genius, but it's not going to help much when I need to pull back a 120lb draw weight longbow with just my fingertips.
By rights nobody in our setting should be able to use a longbow. Our bows, however, are a purely fantasy thing, as discussed elsewhere, rather than having any real grounding in reality. It follows that stats are there for balance more than anything, as mentioned above.

Re: Skills - What do they actually use?

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:46 am
by RiderOnTheStorm
...I am growing more and more curious what the wield-style skills do, since I can apparently kill a boar sow (not the toughest thing ever, admittedly) by myself without much difficulty and without either skill being high enough to show on my sheet. Do they only come into play vs other people with weapons or something?