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Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:56 am
by krelm
So Brian pointed out something in general: the goodguys have loads of goodguy races, but there are hardly any badguy races. Rather than hijack that thread I figured I'd start one here for ideas for more badguy races. Right now the list is:

Good guys:

Human (0 RPP)
Dwarf (3 RPP) +1 STR, +1 CON, -1 DEX, -1 WIL
Silvan Elf (6 RPP) +1 CON, +1 DEX, +1 AGI, +1 AUR
Dunadan (6 RPP)
Beorning (1 RPP)
Dorwinion (2RPP)
Rohirrim (3 RPP)
Gondorian (3 RPP)
Daleman (3 RPP)
Breeman (2 RPP)
Hobbit (6 RPP)

And...bad guys:

Orc (0 RPP)
Easterling (0 RPP)
Warg (3 RPP) (infravision, natural attack)

My own ideas:
Spiders (3 RPP) (infravision, natural attack and armor)
Trolls (4 RPP) (stat boosts, natural attack and armor)
Uruk-Hai? I'm not sure if they fit into the timeline or the area
Olog-hai? Same deal
And then maybe some special apps for evil goodguys, save dwarves and elves.

The main problem I'm seeing is, wargs and spiders are pretty high RPP and would only draw some niche players, while requiring quite a bit of code-work to balance, and there are no evil races that I can think of that really compare to elves (besides maybe olog-hai, but they're so stupid that they serve better as NPCs).

So, let's hear your ideas.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:10 am
by Canawa
I don't quite know enough about this particular setting to suggest races. In the version of SOI with the spire, were there not multiple tiers of the easterling race? I could also be thinking of the Haradrim. I came of drinking age since I played that iteration.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:09 am
by PhocsM
Unless they don't fit in this setting, the Corsairs from Umbar could be added, and I remember there where Black Numeroneans when I played in Tur-Edendor a long time ago. I don't really remember any other evil races that could also offer a good RP experience.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:47 pm
by Brian
I would approach it in a similar way to what was done with the human races on the good guy side by making regionalized orc varieties. Here's what I mean.

Gundabad Orc (1 RPP) +1 CON
Hailing from the northernmost orcish realm, the cold, desolate conditions have increased the physical hardiness of these orcs so +CON.

Moria Orc (1 RPP) +1 DEX
Having driven out the dwarves, the orcs of Moria had the opportunity to seize and study dwarves craftsmanship, giving them new insights into better creation of implements of war so + Dex.

Angmar Orc (2 RPP) +1 CON, +1 WIL
Descended from the orcs who served the dreaded Witch-King of Angmar, these orcs now reside in the northerly orcish realms. Due to their bloodline as the fist of the Witch-King's armies, their bodies can absorb more punishment (+CON) , while the close proximity to the awesome power of the Witch-King increased their innate cruelty and resolve (+WIL).

Dol-Guldur Orc (3 RPP) +1 AGI, +1 DEX, +1 WIL
Sired in the heart of the Shadow, these orcs are the hammer of the Necromancer's forces. Bred and trained for war from birth, they are proficient fighters with a taste for battle (+AGI). Trained in the ruins of Dol-Guldur and beneath the dark boughs of Mirkwood, they have learned to move subtly in the shadows and to create the arms needed for the conquest of the North (+DEX). They have lived the entirety of their lives under the weight and darkness of the presence of the Necromancer and his indomitable evil will has seeped into the very essence of his servants driving them with power and terror to make war in his name (+WIL).

Olog-Hai (4 RPP) +1 STR, +1 CON, +1 PRE
*special note: though I'm classing this as a 4 RPP race I'm only suggesting 3 stat boosts because it is the only race in my current proposals with a boost to STR (besides wargs, which can't use weapons so it isn't as big an issue). Boosting STR gives them the opportunity for superhuman STR which with the way certain weapon interactions are could make this race absolute combat juggernaut. Not only that they have straight +1 to con as well, which gives the race two bonuses to straight up combat skills (STR, CON, AGI).*

Terrifying to allies and enemies alike, the Olog-Hai are a mountain of flesh and muscle, capable of enormous fears of strength (+STR). Their thick hide is almost armor on its own, capable of turning the blows of a weak arm (+CON). Finally, their intimidating aspect causes terror in all but the hardiest of souls, increasing their psychological devastation in battle (+PRE).

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:21 pm
by Canawa
Brian, that seems like a good proposal and very in line with the thinking in the other thread. However, I would question if something like 1,3,5 are something Easterling related and 2,4,6 are more orkish related? I haven't been around in a while so I'm not 100% on why the easterlings were added but I'm assuming people want a chance to play as a human but be on the "bad side". I think they should get a chance to play higher skilled races as well.

Since I am rather unfamiliar with this current setting is there any way to make that happen?

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:16 pm
by Brian
My proposal for the bad guy races goes along with my revision of what I would propose for the good guy races that ties stat boosts directly to RPP. 1 RPP in cost gives 1 stat boost. So, for reference, here is what I did with the good guy races in my proposal, and then you can see how it stacks up to what I proposed for the bad guys. In both proposals there isn't anything at the 5 and 6 RPP cost levels.

Human (0 RPP)

Orc (0 RPP)

Easterling (0 RPP)

Wargs can't wear armor nor wield weapons, so boosts to 2 very combat relative stats in STR and CON to make them a little tougher, Infravision is a perk they currently have and fills out the 3rd RPP related boost.

Dwarf (3 RPP) +1 CON, +1 DEX, +1 WIL:
Hardy, great craftsmen, indomitable wills

Silvan Elf (4 RPP) +1 CON, +1 AGI, +1 DEX, +1 INT:
Elves are naturally more resistant to physical hurts (CON), have grace of movement and command of their bodies (AGI), are skilled in craft and the making of things (DEX). I would change AUR from INT as I don't feel that the Silvan elves would be particularly inspiring in their AUR: a Dunedain in many ways is more ennobled spiritually than the common folk of the Silvan realm. INT however reflects that they have an immortal lifespan and the ability to continually learn throughout it [so higher skill pool].

Dunadan (4 RPP) +1 AGI, +1 DEX, +1 WIL, +1 AUR:
More gifted in their physical form/movement and craft than common men [AGI and DEX], with ennobled spirits and greater ability to resist evil [AUR and WIL].

Beorning (1 RPP) +1 CON:
Hardy bear men (CON)!

Dorwinion (1 RPP) +1 INT:
From what I'm reading of the documentation they have a fairly advanced mercantile culture that seems to promote skills of diplomacy, bargaining and commerce, which I feel relates closest to INT.

Rohirrim (2 RPP) +1 AGI, +1 WIL
The Rohirrim were a naturally warlike folk and had bodies gifted to the pursuit of the arts of war and horsemanship (AGI). They were a proud and fierce people, prideful and not easily cowed or intimidated (WIL).

Gondorian (2 RPP) +1 DEX, +1 INT:
Most technologically advanced and learned culture of man left in Middle Earth, so +1 DEX for the craftiness and +1 INT for the fact that your average Gondorian almost certainly has a better education than any other mannish culture.

Daleman (1 RPP) +1 DEX:
Close in friendship with the Dwarves, Dale was reknowned for its intricate and fantastical toys and other crafts, hence a bonus to DEX for that craftiness.

Breeman (1 RPP) +1 WIL
The people of Bree pretty much live upon the distant fringe of civilization (if it can even be called that) and this leads them to be resolute and hardy of spirit.

Hobbit (3 RPP) +1 AGI, +1 DEX, +1 WIL
Basically the quietest, best sneakers in middle-earth (AGI), with clever craft skills and nimble fingers (DEX) and a remarkable mental fortitude and toughness of spirit when put to the test (WIL).

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:39 pm
by Canawa
Brian wrote:My proposal for the bad guy races goes along with my revision of what I would propose for the good guy races that ties stat boosts directly to RPP.
Yea, I understood that it was going to be even all the way across, but I was just using 1,3,5 or 2,4,6 as examples. It can be 1 and 3 are races that pertain to orcs and 2 or 4 pertain to humans. Mainly I am just wondering if there is a way it can be structured so that people who want to play "bad guy" human characters can still get the stat enhanced characters. Example: Is there something that would be Easterling related that could replace the 2 RPP orc?

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:31 pm
by Brian
Ahhh, I see what you mean now. There definitely could be, people just have to look into the lore for something, or they just make up something that is reasonable. I would make it an and though, not an or, so that there are races at RPP levels for both orcs and badguy humans.

Personally, I would not recommend going with Corsairs or anything like that. What I could possibly see is different kinds of Easterlings, though I don't know what's being worked out lore wise for them, or having men from the former Angmar area over the mountains.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:05 pm
by Zargen
To reiterate what Canawa was getting at. Different levels of RPP requirement for easterling 'flavors' in the same way as the orcs would be neat. What ever particular "warbands" of what vaguely easternish happened to make it up here. Need not be one single host of easterlings presumably. Variags, wainriders, balcoth, some of those others mentioned.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:08 pm
by Zargen
Honorable mentions: orc and troll half-breeds. in what ever manner of mixture you'd prefer your man-orc-troll freak.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:21 pm
by Icristhus
Here's a few random thoughts:

Wargs and Spiders are obviously very limited as PCs. I'd suggest giving them some kind of purpose and a level of staff support that normal PCs would not have, and turn them into a sort of human-controlled mini boss for the "good guys."

For example, maybe give them a natural AC to make up for the lack of ability to wear armor, and an anti-mirkwood craft set that lets them (with huge craft timers, of course) go out and plant new warg dens or spider eggs or whatever.

Make them a bit scarier than the average NPC member of their race, but don't necessarily make them ridiculous. A formidable spider rather than an outright queen. A young warg alpha rather than a grizzled old monster.

Then, apply boosts that give them a bit of extra survivability and focus on bringing their skills up to par through a role of some kind, and turn them loose to be a straight antagonist PC for the enemy sphere. The better they roleplay it and the more conflict or fun they cause for the other side, the better, and then they die.

I ultimately like the idea of offering staff-supported mini boss or minor villain type roles like this to players that might be interested in giving it a shot a lot more than I like the idea of trying to figure out how to make sub-spheres of giant spiders and talking wolves playable in the traditional sense.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:43 pm
by krelm
Well the thing is all that requires coding. Giving PCs a natural AC doesn't work at the moment, which is why wargs weren't really viable during their first iteration.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:03 pm
by Icristhus
Ah, had no idea natural armor on PCs was broken, too.

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:07 pm
by Zargen
Brian mentioned olog-hai. I dont think they exist yet. But most trolls dont turn into stone in the daylight so theres plenty of other trollkin out there to choose for rpp. 3rpp (should get 4rpp boosts to offset the fact they can instadie) stone trolls.3rpp half-troll 4rpp cave troll. 5rpp mountain troll

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:05 pm
by Faroukel
3 RPP - Crebain

Re: Badguy Race Ideas

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:24 pm
by PhocsM
Faroukel wrote:3 RPP - Crebain
Actually these could be a nice pet for evil side