Moderator: Elder Staff
by radioactivejesus » Sat May 09, 2015 3:49 pm
by MrT2G » Sat May 09, 2015 5:40 pm
radioactivejesus wrote: Wearing metal equipment isn't about to prevent a soldier from hiding and moving about when he's a good distance away from his target, the sounds of the metal wouldn't be within earshot, and metal can easily be dulled or left unpolished, or fabric worn overtop to prevent catching light and they could simply use the terrain to obstruct line of sight to them.
by tehkory » Sat May 09, 2015 8:44 pm
you are visible from three rooms out in dense forests with a bright purple neon sign above your head because you stepped too close to a rabbit.
by radioactivejesus » Sat May 09, 2015 9:20 pm
MrT2G wrote:radioactivejesus wrote: Wearing metal equipment isn't about to prevent a soldier from hiding and moving about when he's a good distance away from his target, the sounds of the metal wouldn't be within earshot, and metal can easily be dulled or left unpolished, or fabric worn overtop to prevent catching light and they could simply use the terrain to obstruct line of sight to them.
If the sneak/hide system is going to be re-balanced, metal armor needs to prevent sneaking/hiding at any real level for balance sake.
by tehkory » Sat May 09, 2015 9:53 pm
Make it so that whenever you scan into a room, you roll your intelligence vs. the hide skill of any occupants.
scan n
scan n
scan n
scan n
And Tehkory, I have never once experienced someone getting revealed for sneaking into a room that is being watched, I'm pretty sure that isn't part of the code.
by radioactivejesus » Sat May 09, 2015 11:35 pm
tehkory wrote:Make it so that whenever you scan into a room, you roll your intelligence vs. the hide skill of any occupants.
- Code: Select all
scan n
scan n
scan n
scan n
To be fair, though...maybe if scanning was given a delay, again, that might work. But it'd still be abusable as snarfagle, and would require scanning to echo to others...which would get old as hell awful fast. And it'd probably mean scanning should break hide, at that point, given it's the equivalent of long-distance searching.
by Brian » Sun May 10, 2015 10:49 am
by radioactivejesus » Sun May 10, 2015 11:55 am
Brian wrote:I think it's good to think about ideal solutions and then also to think about the best, quickest, and most practical solution for the interim. As much as it would be desirable for hiding to be completely redone (and it would be) I've seen no indications that it's on the radar and I imagine it's probably a big project.
I imagine that for the forseeable future hiding is going to remain the binary on/off that it currently is. If that's the case is it difficult to make these extra proposed rolls vs the hide skill with the possibility of revealing the person or is it just easier to have certain armors disable the command? With the limited amount of manpower here it always seems that work vs. reward has to be factored in, and I would rather have a partial, somewhat less than ideal solution that will actually be implemented than a perfect solution that takes way too long and never gets done.
by Brian » Sun May 10, 2015 12:53 pm
by Jarlhen » Sun May 10, 2015 1:10 pm
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by tehkory » Sun May 10, 2015 1:36 pm
Jarlhen wrote:I still don't understand why mail protects less or the same as leather. It takes 2 minutes to change and I've yet to hear a single argument as to why this is the case.
I'm also not sure as to why just giving severe penalties to hide/sneak isn't enough? I mean search and scan are all int checks, and it must be checking against something, right? Or how does it work exactly?
by Gobbo » Sun May 10, 2015 1:45 pm
by Jarlhen » Sun May 10, 2015 1:49 pm
tehkory wrote:Jarlhen wrote:I still don't understand why mail protects less or the same as leather. It takes 2 minutes to change and I've yet to hear a single argument as to why this is the case.
I'm also not sure as to why just giving severe penalties to hide/sneak isn't enough? I mean search and scan are all int checks, and it must be checking against something, right? Or how does it work exactly?
Because it's literally a lesser quality item. It's cheap, trashy mail that's not made as well. It's crap and poorly-made.
There are five qualities of weapons/armor in-game. Trash, poor, ordinary, good, and superior. Metal's either poor or trash. Oiled is ordinary. Objects of the same quality protect the same, and the difference is in not armor-class but instead armor-type.
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by Brian » Sun May 10, 2015 1:53 pm
Jarlhen wrote:I'm also not sure as to why just giving severe penalties to hide/sneak isn't enough? I mean search and scan are all int checks, and it must be checking against something, right? Or how does it work exactly?
by Jarlhen » Sun May 10, 2015 1:55 pm
Brian wrote:Jarlhen wrote:I'm also not sure as to why just giving severe penalties to hide/sneak isn't enough? I mean search and scan are all int checks, and it must be checking against something, right? Or how does it work exactly?
The way that hide works is you're either fully hidden or you're fully not hidden to anything. That means that if you're in a room with no ungrouped PCs and no NPCs you become fully, 100% hidden. Nobody is going to see you if they scan into your room, nobody is going to see you if they walk into the room that you're in. The only thing that breaks this 100% guaranteed hiding is if you attempt to sneak into/out of a room that has a PC or an NPC in it or if you try to take an action in the room that has a PC or an NPC in it.
Functionally, what this means is that as long as you're under the encumbrance limit that allows you to hide or not, you can wear anything that you want and you will be registered as 100% fully hidden. It also means that as long as you scan before entering a room to make sure there are no PCs or NPCs in the next room that would check against your hide skill, you can cross the entire map and remain 100% hidden no matter what you're wearing. Even if you're in a room and a PC or NPC walks in you can still remain 100% hidden unless you take an action with them in the room.
Due to this, hiding makes you invisible unless you challenge your skill against something in the room. If you're good with scanning and moving you can make it so that you never challenge the skill and never have your hiden state broken.
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by tehkory » Sun May 10, 2015 1:58 pm
Jarlhen wrote:Brian wrote:Jarlhen wrote:I'm also not sure as to why just giving severe penalties to hide/sneak isn't enough? I mean search and scan are all int checks, and it must be checking against something, right? Or how does it work exactly?
The way that hide works is you're either fully hidden or you're fully not hidden to anything. That means that if you're in a room with no ungrouped PCs and no NPCs you become fully, 100% hidden. Nobody is going to see you if they scan into your room, nobody is going to see you if they walk into the room that you're in. The only thing that breaks this 100% guaranteed hiding is if you attempt to sneak into/out of a room that has a PC or an NPC in it or if you try to take an action in the room that has a PC or an NPC in it.
Functionally, what this means is that as long as you're under the encumbrance limit that allows you to hide or not, you can wear anything that you want and you will be registered as 100% fully hidden. It also means that as long as you scan before entering a room to make sure there are no PCs or NPCs in the next room that would check against your hide skill, you can cross the entire map and remain 100% hidden no matter what you're wearing. Even if you're in a room and a PC or NPC walks in you can still remain 100% hidden unless you take an action with them in the room.
Due to this, hiding makes you invisible unless you challenge your skill against something in the room. If you're good with scanning and moving you can make it so that you never challenge the skill and never have your hiden state broken.
But if you scan and there's a hidden person in that room, is there not an int check against their hide? Or if you search?
by Jarlhen » Sun May 10, 2015 2:04 pm
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by Ceredir » Sun May 10, 2015 7:41 pm
Jarlhen wrote:I still don't understand why mail protects less or the same as leather.
by Jarlhen » Sun May 10, 2015 10:53 pm
Ceredir wrote:Jarlhen wrote:I still don't understand why mail protects less or the same as leather.
It doesn't.
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by radioactivejesus » Sun May 10, 2015 11:21 pm
Ceredir wrote:Jarlhen wrote:I still don't understand why mail protects less or the same as leather.
It doesn't.
by Jarlhen » Mon May 11, 2015 12:50 am
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by Ceredir » Mon May 11, 2015 2:52 am
by Ceredir » Mon May 11, 2015 3:00 am
by Jarlhen » Mon May 11, 2015 3:13 am
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.