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Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:49 pm
by Throttle
Take it up with staff if you have a genuine concern that doesn't boil down to being upset that it isn't possible to behave like a complete dick without getting in trouble for it. That has been the case in every single instance I've witnessed so far of the Guard applying its authority.

I actually think it's ridiculous the extent to which people seem to feel entitled to behave precisely how they want without any repercussions. This isn't a modern-day setting with rights and leniency, and if you are who I think you are, I'm actually disgusted to see you claiming and complaining about OOC power abuse, given the in-game events behind it.

The Guard has quite a lot of authority in Utterby. They're keeping the place safe and keeping the peace inside town at the same time. As long as they're not actively hurting people or otherwise causing the problems that they're supposed to prevent, it's likely that they'll have the freedom to do what their job demands.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:54 pm
by Kitzilla
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:
This seems like a pretty clear case of power over other players going to people's heads OOCly, and it's an OOC issue because I'm suggesting that the Guard shouldn't exist as it currently does, given the setting. I don't think a tiny town like Utterby needs 2 dozen police. Militia to defend the town? Yes.
I think this comes down to a playability issue. Where do all of the combat-leaning PCs go if not the Guard? A player militia is awesome, but how much RP does it generate? It seems so far that a militia only mobilizes when it's needed, which means staff intervention and an RPT. Which is great, for everyone who can make the RPT and is online when staff are around. For everyone else? Thumb-twiddling in the Inn.

If we have an NPC Guard force, again, Guard stuff and police actions will only happen when staff is around. PCs, on the other hand, are doing what they do pretty much around the clock.

Once the game expands, that will probably settle things, because there will be both more outlets for combat characters and there will be more town that needs Guards/Soliders.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:04 pm
by Kitzilla
Nyneve wrote: A place to buy things like clothes, jewelry, and general knick-knacks would be swell.
This is on my wish list too! Except maybe it could be a place that also buys such things, and gives the crafty types another source of income! (with which to buy super-expensive materials...)

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:21 pm
by RiderOnTheStorm
Throttle wrote:Take it up with staff if you have a genuine concern that doesn't boil down to being upset that it isn't possible to behave like a complete dick without getting in trouble for it. That has been the case in every single instance I've witnessed so far of the Guard applying its authority.

I actually think it's ridiculous the extent to which people seem to feel entitled to behave precisely how they want without any repercussions. This isn't a modern-day setting with rights and leniency, and if you are who I think you are, I'm actually disgusted to see you claiming and complaining about OOC power abuse, given the in-game events behind it.

The Guard has quite a lot of authority in Utterby. They're keeping the place safe and keeping the peace inside town at the same time. As long as they're not actively hurting people or otherwise causing the problems that they're supposed to prevent, it's likely that they'll have the freedom to do what their job demands.
The guard doesn't do anything noteworthy. I'd be willing to bet non-guard PCs have downed more threats to town than the guard has. Almost everybody who goes outside kills wolves. The guard doing it in groups of 10 isn't all that important. If the orcs attack it's not like only the Guard is going to go out. Again. A militia, yes. A massive police force? No.

As it stands, I have seen very little of 'people interfering with the guard doing their job' and a lot of claims that seem to amount to people not getting on their knees when a guard randomly asks.

I think it's ridiculous the level of 'respect mah authoriah' you seem to think the Guard deserves OOCly. The constant harping IC of 'I'm a guard ermmagerd, kiss my ass or else' is crazy and it's been happening since like day 5 of Alpha and I've seen it across multiple characters, most of whom personally had no trouble with the guard at all.

ETA : It's like a paid firefighter walking around town bitchslapping the volunteer firefighters and saying he's better than them.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:43 pm
by Throttle
That's both ridiculous and completely dishonest, but leave it at that and deal with it IC or complain to staff.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:47 pm
by MarsGrad
RiderOnTheStorm wrote: The guard doesn't do anything noteworthy. I'd be willing to bet non-guard PCs have downed more threats to town than the guard has. Almost everybody who goes outside kills wolves. The guard doing it in groups of 10 isn't all that important. If the orcs attack it's not like only the Guard is going to go out. Again. A militia, yes. A massive police force? No.

As it stands, I have seen very little of 'people interfering with the guard doing their job' and a lot of claims that seem to amount to people not getting on their knees when a guard randomly asks.

I think it's ridiculous the level of 'respect mah authoriah' you seem to think the Guard deserves OOCly. The constant harping IC of 'I'm a guard ermmagerd, kiss my ass or else' is crazy and it's been happening since like day 5 of Alpha and I've seen it across multiple characters, most of whom personally had no trouble with the guard at all.

ETA : It's like a paid firefighter walking around town bitchslapping the volunteer firefighters and saying he's better than them.
This seems incredibly IC, and also more of a personal issue.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:07 pm
by tehkory
Some Guards have been aggressive, mean, and rude with their power.

Some have been completely justified, giving measured responses and punishments that match the crime.

Some have underutilized their power, letting things go that others wouldn't, and expressed leniency when it comes to punishments.

That's awesome, and also IC more than OOC. Overall, the Guard is policing behavior only when it's thrown their way or when Staff explicitly pushing for it or leading it.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:03 pm
by Matt
Yea, that's all IC. I don't mind a power abusing Guard.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:19 am
by soiacc
I do wish that some people would stop poweremoting or emoting like we can know what that character is thinking.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:30 am
by Matt
soiacc wrote:I do wish that some people would stop poweremoting or emoting like we can know what that character is thinking.
Haha yes -please-. Emotes are for actions and not thoughts. That's what thinks are for.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:18 am
by Vwest
RiderOnTheStorm wrote:You know, I was going to try to ignore the character discussion, even though it's so blatant as to be facepalm worthy. But, then I was watching an exchange earlier and it clicked in my brain. We seem to have managed to get a /couple/ (and not couple as in the number 2) from a popular HBO series. Which is just.
I have a friend who wouldn't even log in because of not wanting to deal with the blatant ridiculousness of it.

It isn't even like you can move to another tavern or another town to avoid these gimmicky characters like in other games, since the town is so small and the population so concentrated in a few rooms.

There are games and places where this crossover nonsense is perfectly acceptable, so why dump it on a game designed for a very specific theme from a fantasy world that has been adored and respected for generations?

It's a tough spot to be in, I get it; someone didn't realize what they were approving and it slipped past. It happens and it isn't exactly fair to the players to have their fantasy characters taken away, even if it wouldn't have normally made it past the approval screening. No one wants to have to be the jerk that says sorry, this is silly and it's stopping right now.

On the other hand, it's clear enough that this isn't approved of by the vast majority and is having a negative effect on the game's infancy when people literally won't log in / log off just to avoid these characters.

That's saying nothing about how it looks to new arrivals who are bound to go through the 'die every day for a week' phase. If they see it in game and want to join in on the GoT bandwagon and get rejected, how is it going to look? How do you justify it to them, that doesn't leave them feeling disenfranchised?

Dead horse or not, I'd imagine it'll keep coming up until the problem is handled, one way or the other.

Separate from the above.

I do agree the guard numbers are on the excessive side compared to the number of people they're supposed to be protecting from harm. It would be nice if they were less overbearing about having to involve themselves in every situation as the official authority.

Two people discussing business doesn't need an armed guard to walk in and impose his presence to oversee the transaction, when there is nothing untoward going on.

A couple of people having a casual conversation shouldn't warrant them being questioned about what they're doing or what they've been up to.

It still happens and I can completely understand why people would think it's players abusing their status. If may be perfectly IC, but it's unnecessarily stifling and gives me the impression of being in Allanak instead of a backwoods boom town where we're all supposed to be, in general terms, decent folk.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:06 am
by MarsGrad
Vwest wrote:Two people discussing business doesn't need an armed guard to walk in and impose his presence to oversee the transaction, when there is nothing untoward going on.

A couple of people having a casual conversation shouldn't warrant them being questioned about what they're doing or what they've been up to.
At the risk of being somewhat IC, are you sure the Guard in these two, presumably hypothetical situations, isn't just... you know... curious? Or there? And not, in fact, trying to 'impose his presence?'

I'm not everywhere, obviously, so I can't see everything, but I haven't noticed any of this occurring IC except for one instance where one of the parties involved requested the Guard to be involved as well.

I don't mean any offense, but it seems like the same few people have the same complaints about the Guard and I'm just wondering if it's not a personal bias. Some bad history with... like... Allanak guards or something that's left a bad taste in a few mouths.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:03 am
by Hawkwind
Have your character leave. If enough IC events happen and people begin to leave because the Guard is bullying them out things will change. Unfortunately this is quite IC and little can be done OOCly without damaging the intergity of the game.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:25 pm
by Hazgarn
Vwest wrote:Two people discussing business doesn't need an armed guard to walk in and impose his presence to oversee the transaction, when there is nothing untoward going on.

A couple of people having a casual conversation shouldn't warrant them being questioned about what they're doing or what they've been up to.
If people are throwing their weight around like this in-game and you (and your character) feel that it's inappropriate, you can look for that guard's PC superiors in game or PM an admin (probably Frigga) to make your complaint to their Captain directly.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:28 pm
by Jeshin
Conversely you can join a clan like the Ironwood or Lodge. Both organizations have some sway in Utterby and should reduce the Guard's leeway in picking on you. Especially if you are a foreman or are close with a foreman.

Unhappy workers are unproductive workers and the Master doesn't like idle hands.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:35 pm
by Mithrandur
Jeshin wrote:Conversely you can join a clan like the Ironwood or Lodge. Both organizations have some sway in Utterby and should reduce the Guard's leeway in picking on you. Especially if you are a foreman or are close with a foreman.

Unhappy workers are unproductive workers and the Master doesn't like idle hands.
Still waiting on those foreman picks actually. But when they're in, yeah this.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:17 pm
by Icarus
As a note, I am the contact for the Guard. Direct all IC requests to meet to me. He is a very pleasant, happy man.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:34 pm
by wilesly
Icarus wrote:As a note, I am the contact for the Guard. Direct all IC requests to meet to me. He is a very pleasant, happy man.
And kind. And gentle. A little bit like Santa Claus.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:32 pm
by LuckyV
I think the name "Guard" should not be understood like that.

They are "Merchant Guard". They are not Police. They are not FBI. And they are not "Guard".


Their task is to protect the industry of Utterby from those who seek harm to it(the industry).

So until neither the folk nor the guardsmen start thinking about it, things wont roll that way.



But really it's just Alpha, things are only starting to build. So we have a lot of space to make mistakes and correct them.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:34 pm
by soiacc
I notice people building things ig, or rping building things like huts and whatnot. Is this okay? Will it be supported? Meaning will there actually be a building, walled fort built? I asked elsewhere and was told to ask here.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:35 pm
by Letters
Characters are craftsmen, fishermen, foresters, or part of a small and poorly equipped mercenary outfit contracted to protect the settlement.

That's the setting as it exists. I think we'd all be a lot happier if people took a step back and considered that. I'm sure there will be greatly expanded options for intrigue and adventure and trade and conflict on a grander scale later on, but for now, this is a village and its residents.

Maybe I'm mistaken about what people want, but that's what we've got.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:47 pm
by RiderOnTheStorm
Bow crafts.

And an NPC that sells the newbie quality bows since there is currently no way to get any kind of bow IG.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:11 am
by LuckyV
My wish is that people with strong ooc connections would themselves choose to play in different game spheres. Or would simply not talk about the game ooc.

As futile as it is, it's still a wish.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:17 am
by RiderOnTheStorm
LuckyV wrote:My wish is that people with strong ooc connections would themselves choose to play in different game spheres. Or would simply not talk about the game ooc.

As futile as it is, it's still a wish.
Heh.

No, no, insert generic "people wanna play with their friends of course!!!" excuse to tell people that power cliques are okay.

Re: Utterby Wish List

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:24 am
by Frigga
Mithrandur wrote:
Jeshin wrote:Conversely you can join a clan like the Ironwood or Lodge. Both organizations have some sway in Utterby and should reduce the Guard's leeway in picking on you. Especially if you are a foreman or are close with a foreman.

Unhappy workers are unproductive workers and the Master doesn't like idle hands.
Still waiting on those foreman picks actually. But when they're in, yeah this.
PMs went out this morning.