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soap and dyeing

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soap and dyeing

Postby mongwen » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:59 am

I respectfully suggest staff take another look at these and fix them. Right now, dyeing isn't worth the trouble and cost. Bars of soap only have three uses, which is far too few. Soap tends to last a good while, even the old-fashioned stuff like we're talking about for the game.
So you've got soap that costs six coppers a bar. The dye small-undyed-leather craft requires two entire bars of soap rather than two uses of a single bar. I bought a bar with some coppers my PC scraped and tested that just now. That's a silver and a couple coppers in addition to the cost of a jar of dye. I don't know how many uses a dye jar has as it doesn't show when you examine. For the soap, though, that's six uses of soap required to run the craft for a small piece of leather. Haven't branched yet, but I'm guessing that number'll increase for larger squares. Sticking to what I know, that is also, by the way, the equivalent of six baths if you use the lather lye-soap craft. It doesn't seem likely to take less soap to wash a human or humanoid body than it does to die a hide that's already been treated. So basically we need more uses in bars of soap and less soap required to run the dyeing crafts, seems to me. My two coppers, probably worth less.
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Taurgalas » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:06 pm

As has been explained before on multiple threads. One use per jar. Period. Two bars of soap not uses. Bars. The purpose is not to wash the hide but *bleach* it. You need more concentration of lye than you would EVER use on your skin. Eventually (for humans at least) dye and soap will be craftable. Dyeing anything is a costly endeavor which is why most people didn't. Yes, as the added crafts come in it will be adjusted, but for now it is working as intended.
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby mongwen » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:19 pm

I am once again in disagreement with the staff over the way they have something set up. I hope I manage to express it constructively.


I must repeat that the current requirements for running a dyeing craft are utter bunk and this stuff badly needs to be adjusted. We're playing a game, and honestly while I can spare some appreciation for what the RL requirements of such things were in the middle-ages, I care not at all if it was expensive to do. It's fine if you want to recreate the process of bleaching the leather, but price wise you should err on the side of playability. Right now, dye costs, not 20 which was the starting price and arguably too expensive even then because many barely make that in a month in my experience, but now 40 coins, and it requires two entire bars of soap, which is another 12. Even with the dye at 20, by the time they bought the required soap, that was a month's pay gone *if* they could get it at all. In any event, That 52 coins charged now is still more than most people make in a month and having the dye at such prices means it's really not worth doing at all. That has the effect of prohibiting any kind of creativity or distinction to color of fabric or leather. The price of fabric is insane, too, but that'd be another thread.

The requirements to run the craft are exactly the same for a small square of leather as for a large suede one.
Dyecraft: dye small-undyed-leather
Phase 1: 15 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a large, half-gallon wooden jar.
Held or in Room (Consumed): 2 of a bar of unscented, lye-and-tallow soap.
Phase 2: 30 seconds
Held or in Room (Consumed): a small, $leathercolor square of leather.
Phase 3: 0 seconds Amateur Leathercraft skill required.
Phase 4: 0 seconds
Held or in Room (Partially Consumed): a large, half-gallon wooden jar of
$naturalcolor dye.
Phase 5: 30 seconds
Phase 6: 20 seconds
Produced: a small, $leathercolor square of leather.
OOC Delay Timer: 75 RL Minutes
>

That strikes me as unsuited. I don't think a small square would use as much dye as a large anything. In the oiled leather square crafts, a small uses two uses of an eight-use jar, medium 4 and large 8. I could see something like that. However, if something has uses, it shows when you examine it and there's no such distinction with the dye jar, so one is given to understand that all the solution is used. Matter of fact in the one time I remember running the craft, the solution was consumed and left me with just a jar at the end. Useful, but a bloody expensive jar :P.

Taking the small leather square dyeing craft as an example, as it's the one my PC would have to run to branch since she has no access to suede, it's a waste of money to spent 52 coins dyeing a square some color then making something out of it that might, maybe, be worth 10 or 15 if you're lucky. I emphasize that's One. Single. Small. Square. Typically used in straps, laces, belts, sheaths and the like. Guaranteed loss of money and waste of time, and no incentive to keep pouring whatever coin you can scrape up down the hole to get to larger squares. Why? Because we're talking the likelyhood of literally hundreds of coins down the hole to little purpose given the vagaries of branching. It's time to make dyeing more player-friendly, folks.
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Icarus » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:53 pm

I appreciate your constructive feedback, as it was indeex constructive. I will trust that Rishte and Frigga will take your concerns into account in examining the cost of goods.
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Matt » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:58 pm

I think luxury things like this should have some kind of excess costs to keep them 'luxury'. Want that pimp ass matching pink armor? Gotta spend the coin. Now when it comes to item cost vs reward yea, that needs to be fixed. Why have crafts that make no sense to use?
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Icarus » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:40 pm

As a note, all items involed save cloth are foragable. Technically you could get dye for free.
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Brian » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:54 pm

Icarus wrote:As a note, all items involed save cloth are foragable. Technically you could get dye for free.


That's really cool, all you need now are some sheep and then you could produce the wool too, or some cotton or whatever fabric you grow.
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Icarus » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:56 pm

Working on those :-)
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Re: soap and dyeing

Postby Rishte » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:24 pm

I will take a look at the small-squares and medium-squares.


Also... soap-making is underway, 'cause I'm a machine.
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