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More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

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More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby LukeRM » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am

Since we're likely to see crafts redone, I'd like to see more variations of armor pieces available with varying degrees of coverage pier tier/quality level (pqual, oqual, gqual, etc.) I think this would be a good way to allow players to mix and match weightiness and cost vs total coverage.

For the metal armor types, I'd suggest 3 variants for body protection:
a rough %metal mail byrnie
a riveted, %metal mail byrnie
---- cover : torso
a rough %metal mail haubergeon
a riveted, %metal mail haubergeon
---- cover : torso, arms, partial neck
a rough %metal mail hauberk
a riveted, %metal mail hauberk
---- cover : torso, arms, neck, (partial) upperthigh

As one might guess, they occupy the same tier and have the same AC but different levels of coverage. I find it quite silly to have separate mail sleeves, as that makes zero sense. An unmodified byrnie might be about 10-12 lbs, a haubergeon about 16-20 lbs, a full hauberk about 20-30 lbs, and each type would cost appropriately more materials and craft-hours to make in exchange, but the hauberk should also have the highest durability.

Metal helms could be split up like so:
a %metal skullcap
--- cover : head
a %metal spangenhelm
--- cover : head, partial eyes
a %metal %heavyhelm (ocular kettle helm, flat top helm, bascinet etc)
--- cover : head, eyes, partial neck

Like the hauberks, each type would offer improved amounts of coverage in exchange for weight; and perhaps the heavy helm type would somewhat penalize spotting.

A similar system could be put in place for fabric/leather armor, but for now I'm just putting out feelers to see if people think this idea's got any merit. I'd be even willing to desc the damn things, though. :lol:


As for my second suggestion, it doesn't take much text to say. I'd like access to 'refurbish mail-<armor>' crafts that will take iron rings and other tools and will spit out the same armor, but good as new. I feel this makes total sense, given the nature of maille armor and its already extreme cost; it is made of a -lot- of riveted rings that can be replaced when rent, dented, or torn open, making it near as good as new.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby Faroukel » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:06 am

Supported.

But I believe that either all main armour chest pieces should cover all locations (neck, torso, upper/lower arms) and not just torso.

That, or bring back sleeves and gorgets.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby Taurgalas » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:25 pm

Okay, you will never get partials, just for the record, either/or. We'really more likely to revisit the armor we have first, but I'm not against some additions. Can't promise to use all of what's mentioned, but please do provide would likes with coverage (no partials) Material (cloth, leather, metal) and a brief description and we'll consider it.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby tehkory » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:16 pm

Taurgalas wrote:Okay, you will never get partials, just for the record, either/or...(no partials)

Why?
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby Taurgalas » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm

Because, code.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby tehkory » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:31 pm

Taurgalas wrote:Because, code.

Right; why are we removing the additional +1 AC partial coverage grants?
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby Taurgalas » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:14 pm

When you talk about it partially covers the neck... no. The code does not allow that. It is covers or doesn't. Code is boolean. Bonuses and so on are separate and unrelated to this. We're not talking about "taking anything away" I am talking about the description, coverage, and material. Nothing more.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby tehkory » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:05 pm

Taurgalas wrote:When you talk about it partially covers the neck... no. The code does not allow that. It is covers or doesn't. Code is boolean. Bonuses and so on are separate and unrelated to this. We're not talking about "taking anything away" I am talking about the description, coverage, and material. Nothing more.


Code: Select all
Armour
Armour - it's useful if you don't like being shot or stabbed. Here's how it works.

Types
There are five types of armour on ParallelRPI. They are:

padded - these are reinforced fabrics, be they multi-sewed clothes or minimally treated leather hides. They are often cheap and relatively light, vulnerable to slashing weapons and protective against bludgeoning weapons. They are typically the worst in terms of Armour Class and durability.
hardened - these are specially hardened materials that are almost too brittle: greased and fired leathers, metal-sewn-leather, and other such primitive armours. They are typically very resistant to most types of melee damage (though less so to crushing), but their nature makes them provide little protection to gun-shots. Favoured by wildlife hunters and scavengers.
meshed - these are your flak jackets, body armours and kevlar vests of the future, using specially hardened polymesh weaves to provide armour that tries to aim for a balance between the toughness to survive melee attacks but with enough absorption to stop bullets. Particularly vulnerable to stabbing attacks. Favoured by militias and mercenaries.
composite - hardened ceramic and plastic plates and bandings added on to a meshed base, this armour provides superior protection against nearly all attacks, although it is very quick to break and crack. Expensive to produce, it is favoured by professional soldiers and bodyguards, and has no real weaknesses. (Not craftable yet)
Effectivenesses
Different types of armour are more or less effective against different types of weapons. These differences are very pronounced - using the wrong weapon will severely hamper your effectiveness.

padded -
effective against: crushing
vulnerable to: slashing

hardened -
effective against: slashing, piercing, wildlife attacks
vulnerable to: crushing, gunshots

meshed -
effective against: gunshots, crushing
vulnerable to: slashing, piercing

composite -
effective against: gunshots, slashing
vulnerable to: crushing

Locations
Nearly all types of damage your character might suffer in ParallelRPI targets a specific body location: you might be stabbed in the left eye, shot in the right forearm, stabbed in the abdomen or bludgeoned on the neck. The damage you receive will be lessened if you are wearing something over that location. You can tell what locations a piece of equipment will cover with the examine command. You'll get something that looks like:

 It is a leather hauberk.
 It will cover the torso, and partially cover the neck,
 upper-arms, and upper-legs.
If you're wearing this hauberk and someone stabs you in the abdomen, the damage taken will be reduced by the full Armour Class of your hauberk. However, if you get bludgeoned on the neck, the damage taken will be reduced by only the partial Armour Class of your hauberk: the armour in question doesn't cover all your neck, only some. The difference between “primary” and “partial” protection is important.

Please note that -anything- covering you helps defray the blow, even if just a little bit. And anything you're wearing on the torso when you get stabbed there will take some damage.

You cannot wear two items that offer “primary” protection to the same location: if an item offers primary protection, it is too bulky to wear something else over or in conjunction with. However, you can wear any number of items that offer “partial” protection to the same location. This can lead to the “layering” of armour.

In addition to our leather hauberk, imagine we had the following item on as well:

 It is a pair of metal plates attached by strings.
 It will partially cover the torso.
We now have pieces of armour that both cover, and partially cover, our toso. What happens when we get stabbed in the abdomen now?

It's a little complicated, but in a nutshell, your best piece of armour for this particular attack is nominated as the primary armour, and a portion of the second-best piece of armour's Armour Class is also contributed to defer the damage. In general, the effect basically upgrades your armour protection by one quality - your poor-quality hauberk instead acts as an ordinary-quality hauberk for the blow, but it depends greatly on the exact nature of the damage.

The downside of layering is weight: wearing multiple layers of armour will weigh your character down.

The list of locations is: head, eyes, neck, torso, upper-arms, lower-arms, hands, upper-legs, lower-legs, feet.

Upkeep
Every time a piece of your armour is struck, it takes damage - some of these damages will be visible marks, such as a moderate tear, or a large hole. Others will be less notable scratches, chips, notches, and the like. If you do not repair these damages, then over time, the protection offered by your armour will degrade.

Once an item has “worn” added to its status, as in, “it is a worn leather hauberk”, then the Armour Class of the item has been reduced. When you repair the item enough such that its “worn” descriptor is removed, its Armour Class returns to its original value. However, armour can also take permanent damage from particularly large blows. If this happens, you can only ever repair about half the damage of that particular blow, meaning if your armour takes too many large blows, it may be permanently “worn”.

You can probably live with your armour being “worn”, but by the time it begins to get “damaged”, “ruined” and “destroyed”, you're best off turning it in for scrap.


(written by Kithrater, originator of the armor system, including full/partial coverage. A couple things have been broken/fixed since then).

I wasn't aware Staff ever removed the functionality of partial coverage. When did that happen? Do cloaks(which only ever provide partial coverage currently) convey no benefit?
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby LukeRM » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:53 am

Considering existing armor pieces too provide partial cover as per 'exam' (spangenhelms partial cover eyes, hauberks partial cover upperlegs), I too am kind of confused.

Is this currently broken and does nothing now? This system has existed since Atonement onto Parallel and then finally current SoI, I don't expect it to suddenly stop working unless some major change borked it.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby Taurgalas » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:40 am

I'm not certain you understand exactly how armor does work in -this- game in terms of what we term coverage. What worn armor objects cover in actuality is boolean. AC is something different and can have bonuses to account for things. That isn't what we'really talking about here, so please get your mind's out of metagaming, just like x game mentality please. We're not talking about what is or isn't present. Bonuses to account for coverage without coded coverage is NOT being discussed. I'm asking for the sake of the submissions our build team MIGHT consider, KISS. Yes or no to cover a part of the body.

Descriptions are separate yet again. If your armor covers, it covers and nothing else can be worn in the same place. It can READ as partial coverage, but the actual code part of the object is built yes or no. And we can do weird coverages like hands, neck, and lower legs or add bonuses for partial coverage, but that is NOT what we'really asking for in this.

Or we can call the whole thing off and let the builders revamp on their own. That works, too. I was simply asking, if you're going to submit, please help us in the effort to keep submissions simple. We care most about the boolean main coverage. We care most about material. If you want to see it, we care most about description.

Armor revamp in totality isn't first on our priority list. It's there, but a distant consideration. And while player submissions are welcome, I hope you respect the request as a request with reason thst lies in code backing and please stop making assumptions and argument over it.
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Re: More armor variation per tier + mail armor refurbishing

Postby LukeRM » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:40 am

Some sample armor descriptions I've managed to think up in my spare time:

They could all use some polishing, but I am reasonably satisfied with them.

== helms ==

a rough %metal skullcap (light-metal, pquality, head)

Code: Select all
  This is a skullcap hammered out of a single piece of %metal of inconsistent thickness. It is poorly shaped and does not comform well to the head. Some fabric has been stuffed into the interior, with two dangling strips of cloth to tie it underneath the chin.

a %metal skullcap (light-metal, oquality, head)

Code: Select all
  This is a close-fitting skullcap hammered out of a single piece of %metal of consistent thickness. It is reasonably well-shaped, with a smooth, satin-polished surface devoid of obvious hammer marks. A simple, serviceable padded liner has been sewn into the cap, with two strong leather straps to fasten it.

a %metal nasal helm (medium-metal variant, oquality, head,eyes)

Code: Select all
  This helm has been assembled from several pieces of %metal of consistent thickness riveted together. It has a mild peaked shape to the crown, with a broad nasal providing protection to the front of the face and the eyes. Its suspension system is of decent quality, being quite comfortable, with two leather straps to secure it underneath the chin.

a %metal spectacle helm (medium-metal variant, oquality, head,eyes)

Code: Select all
  This helm has been assembled from several pieces of %metal of consistent thickness riveted together. It bears a shallow crest, with added reinforcement at the brow and a spectacle-guard that protects the eyes and much of the face with the added bonus of making the wearer look more menacing. Its suspension system is of decent quality, being quite comfortable, with two leather straps to secure it under the chin.

a heavy %metal spectacle helm with an aventail (heavy-metal variant, oquality, head,eyes,neck, conceals face)

Code: Select all
  This helm has been assembled from several pieces of %metal of consistent thickness riveted together. It bears a shallow crest with added reinforcement around the entire rim, hinged cheek-pieces for the sides, and a spectacle-guard that provides protection to the eyes. Vervelles allow the helm to support a curtain of riveted mail that encloses the rest of the face all the way down to the neck and shoulders. Its suspension system is of good quality, alleviating some of its ample weight.

a robust %metal bascinet with an aventail (heavy-metal variant, gquality, head,eyes,neck, conceals face)

Code: Select all
  The main body of this helm has been raised from a single piece of %metal, with any additional parts held on by strong rivets. Its thickness has been carefully adjusted such that it is strongest where the wearer is most vulnerable to attack. The helm's crown is noticeably peaked, and it encloses the skull on all sides, with vervelles mounted on the rim allowing it to support a strong, densely-woven aventail complete with padded lining that protects the mouth, chin, neck, and shoulders. A broad nasal serves to protect the face, with only small gaps for the eyes. The suspension system is high quality, making it somewhat more comfortable to wear.

== body ==

a rough %metal mail haubergeon [alt : a rough %metal mail shirt] (medium-metal, pquality, torso+arms)

Code: Select all
  This is a shirt of inferior %metal mail, three-quarter-sleeved and terminating at the waist. The wire used to create each link is not of consistent thickness, and not all the rings have been properly riveted together, rendering this armor vulnerable to both committed attack and battle damage. Its poor construction and fitting causes it to bunch up comfortably with some of the wearer's movements, making it more uncomfortable and restrictive than it should be, and worsens the burden of its already substantial weight.

a riveted %metal mail vest (light-metal, pquality, torso)

Code: Select all
  This is a vest of serviceable %metal mail that protects only the torso. All the links are of consistent thickness, featuring the alternating use of solid punched rings and individually-riveted rings to save on labor time without sacrificing strength. It comforms reasonably well to the wearer, flexible enough to allow relatively free movement, but extended wear is definitely uncomfortable.

a solidly-made %metal mail hauberk [alt : a solidly-made %metal mail coat] (heavy-metal, gquality, torso+arms+neck+upperlegs)

Code: Select all
  This is a coat of quality %metal mail that protects the entire upper body except for the hands, with full sleeves and a skirt that extends to the knees and is split to permit free usage of a mount. The wire used for the rings is of thicker gauge than most - the mail is painstakingly assembled in such a way that it is so thick and dense that even a needle's point will find difficulty slipping through the gaps. This does not compromise its mobility much; it is of excellent fit to the wearer's anatomy, and all the metal is highly burnished to minimize friction, which has the added effect of making the armor resist rust and gleam in the light without a thousand hours of extra bathing in sand. Nevertheless, it is anything but light.

== bonus ==

a %color coat of jazerant armor (foreign, oquality?)

Code: Select all
  At a glance this appears to be a good tunic of %color %cloth; it is clearer on close inspection that this is armor, comprising a layer of good %metal mail sandwiched between two layers of thick cloth. It's full-sleeved, with a tall collar to ward part of the neck and leather strips interwoven to allow tightening at the elbow, wrist, and around one's waist.

a stout coat of %metal scales (foreign, oquality?)

Code: Select all
  The base layer of this armor is a sturdy jerkin of %color %leather lined with padding for some small measure of comfort. The real defensive element is overlapping rows of %metal scales sewn to its exterior, with extended flaps of material that allow some degree of coverage to the shoulder, to the groin and to the hips.

a shirt of patchwork mail and metal (orkish? or trash quality)

Code: Select all
  This armor barely deserves to be called such. It's cobbled in such a way as to roughly approximate the form of a shirt, but seems quite terribly ill-suited for proper usage by any humanoid. Sections of scavenged mail and %metal pieces have been fastened together with rudimentary material and a side helping of hope. It can at least be said to protect better than a gambeson alone, if barely.
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