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PVP General Thread

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PVP General Thread

Postby WorkerDrone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:17 pm

This is that thread.

The sum of what I think of PVP is, it should be allowed, it should infrequently happen, and both sides should get an OOC heads up if an OOC headsup is being given period. Days in advance.

For random forest muggings and surprise conflicts between groups of players that nobody planned and were merely coincidental, tough luck to either side, thems the breaks.

And on another note, none of the goals of either sphere should seriously, really be "burn the tark town to the ground" or "fill the orc lair with fire". People should TALK about doing these things, out of hatred and frustration, but it shouldn't be to the point where one side's survival depends on an extreme action.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby radioactivejesus » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:32 pm

agreed. Although nothing's going to stop orcs from killing or enslaving humans (and other orcs) when they get the chance, PK shouldn't be the primary goal, rather an occasional side effect of where their roleplay takes them
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Zargen » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:52 pm

Id like to point out(dont know if this is too much info) but the last major one saw the chance for a lot of PCs to die. But even orcs spare humans some times. Just a word to humans. When I start seeing chopped up orcs everywhere some of us might start being a lot less nice. I always try to keep in mind when im PVPing that someone put a lot of effort into their character and gutting them is off putting. To me at least.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:00 pm

I've never understood this attitude. We don't need OOC warning that someone is going to kill us. That's just ridiculous. "Hey! We're staging a surprise ambush in the woods! Bring a group of hunters so we can have a playdate! I understand that people put a lot of time into their characters, so if they don't want to lose them, they should engage in combat.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby WorkerDrone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:08 pm

It's more a matter of PCs who would reasonably be present during large engagements having a time frame of when to be on so they can, OOCly, have an idea of when they should be on to engage in such an activity.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby hobbitboots » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:29 pm

Please no rules-of-engagement bullcrap!
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby WorkerDrone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:32 pm

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but just because rules of engagement are more to one's side's benefit doesn't mean we don't all benefit from having them.

Keep in mind they're pretty much player enforced and if everyone doesn't play ball there's not much to do about it but keep trying.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Icarus » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:32 pm

I once saw two PCs battling in the forest way back when...

One PC went down, no bleeders but uncon. The other PC who had won looked at him, emotes thinking they were dead and it was a corpse, and walked off. Then they bragged about killing the tark later, and ICly believed they had. I gave that person their third RPP right then.

PvP happens and can lead to death. At the same time, it can also lead to amazing times like the above.

So never rules of engagement. But you bet your ass I'll reward folks who are respectful and collaborative in PvP.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Matt » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:35 pm

Icarus wrote:I once saw two PCs battling in the forest way back when...

One PC went down, no bleeders but uncon. The other PC who had won looked at him, emotes thinking they were dead and it was a corpse, and walked off. Then they bragged about killing the tark later, and ICly believed they had. I gave that person their third RPP right then.

PvP happens and can lead to death. At the same time, it can also lead to amazing times like the above.

So never rules of engagement. But you bet your ass I'll reward folks who are respectful and collaborative in PvP.


This is a great policy.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby hobbitboots » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:35 pm

Awesome.

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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:01 am

Icarus wrote:I once saw two PCs battling in the forest way back when...

One PC went down, no bleeders but uncon. The other PC who had won looked at him, emotes thinking they were dead and it was a corpse, and walked off. Then they bragged about killing the tark later, and ICly believed they had. I gave that person their third RPP right then.

PvP happens and can lead to death. At the same time, it can also lead to amazing times like the above.

So never rules of engagement. But you bet your ass I'll reward folks who are respectful and collaborative in PvP.


This I do agree with. Continuing to hack at a fallen enemy because OOC'ly you know they aren't dead yet is metagaming. Unless your character is some kind of crazed psychopath or a berserker of some kind, then I suppose it's alright.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Onasaki » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:56 am

Going to say this, any kind of random PKing for any reason what so ever. Is metagaming.

If you don't have logs to prove that it wasn't metagaming, I think it should be dealt with, by the imms. Regardless of who was involved.

If the logs show that the person had ABSOLUTELY no reason to kill someone. Then I say, that person deserves to get punished, and the person killed because of it restored. It's a simple fact.

It also seems to be a recurring pattern, lately, and one that's beginning to drive me up a wall.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby LuckyV » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:06 am

If he's orc and you're human then he has every right to kill you.

Going around it like Icarus pointed out deserves -reward-, but not doing that does -not- deserve punishment.


I don't think anyone argues that players should be punished who kills an another character they have never met only because they noticed them injured in the infirmary, for example.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby caellyndria » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:26 am

I think the first PVP encounter left a bit of an impression on people unintentionally, mostly because it was so so close to the walls, scannable from the gates. Krelm already admitted that was an accident elsewhere, so I'd like to at least emphasize that shouldn't be the norm.

This thread is good. People shouldn't get SOI sphere vs sphere conflict confused with the PVP environments of ARPI/PRPI. That was single sphere PVP. Dual spheres exist in SOI for reasons other than skirmish and PVP. It's part of lore and culture and the option to play a role one side of the fence or the other.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:23 am

Yeah, there really shouldn't be much if any human vs human killing going on. I'm sure some people will decide to play evil humans who might want to prey on their fellow human, but I should hope it wouldn't be very common.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Onasaki » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:10 am

Oh, I didn't mean human vs orc PVP, in my post. I meant orc vs orc, or human vs human. <--- That sort of thing is what I was talking about.

Unless there's a very good reason, anyone who dies from a human vs human or orc vs orc conflict. The conflict should be reviewed by the admins, and judged, on whether or not it was an illegal PK or not.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Songweaver » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:37 pm

My vote: do NOT get too restrictive with PVP, whether it be human vs human, orc vs orc, or human vs orc. Put in place systems that allow for a design that does not let PVP get easily out of hand, but let's not hold everyone's hands.

When you remove potential sources of danger from a sphere (including PvP), the resulting security has a significant impact on the proactivity of players and reduces both immersion and atmosphere. I may not want to always play a good human being. I might sometimes want to play a foil, a murderer or criminal, because without foils a character's "being good" means very little.

Orc tribes live less than one hundred miles away from a tiny human village. This is not Minas Tirith. You shouldn't be safe beyond the gatehouses and you shouldn't even be entirely safe ALL of the time within the walls of the village.

Nothing is a bigger turn off to me than a sphere that has systematically reduced its believable level of risk. This is an RPI. Permadeath and the dynamic fluxuation of new characters is part of what makes this sort of game breathe better than other roleplay-focused games.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby BoogtehWoog » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:55 pm

I understand where you are coming from, Songweaver; however, what you are saying also sounds like you want to make the game much more PvP-centric. And for many people that isn't particularly attractive. There are numerous avenues for PvP in the game as it is. I don't think people should have to fear stepping out of the gatehouse every time unless you have a huge patrol. You should be fairly safe as long as you are not too far off from the walls. I am sure many of us don't want to feel like we are being punished for not taking combat skills. Otherwise, the Human sphere simply turns into a more civilized form of the Orc sphere.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Songweaver » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:08 pm

Lemme clarify. I meant the second gatehouse.

And, when I say that nobody should be entirely safe, I mean that there should be times when the safety of the town is directly threatened by the dark, encroaching forces. I don't believe it should be regular, but without a true threat, the imagined threat just isn't immersive and will (in my experience) affect the proactivity and believability of the sphere.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby BoogtehWoog » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:09 pm

Songweaver wrote:Lemme clarify. I meant the second gatehouse.

And, when I say that nobody should be entirely safe, I mean that there should be times when the safety of the town is directly threatened by the dark, encroaching forces. I don't believe it should be regular, but without a true threat, the imagined threat just isn't immersive and will (in my experience) affect the proactivity and believability of the sphere.


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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:50 pm

The problem with restricting same sphere pvp too much is that the mud then becomes too much like real life where people think they can go around mouthing off and being jerks without any fear of repercussion.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby BoogtehWoog » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:59 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:The problem with restricting same sphere pvp too much is that the mud then becomes too much like real life where people think they can go around mouthing off and being jerks without any fear of repercussion.


Absolutely; however, I think we are talking about degrees of PvP. Someone getting popped in the mouth for being a complete arse? It probably shouldn't be too odd to see here and then and not something that leads to much in the way of IG consequences with regards to the Guard. Assaulting someone with a weapon, on the other hand, should provoke a very different response.

I guess we'll see how it all develops as the alpha comes along. And with the Guard starting to grow, we'll probably get to put all of this into action soon.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:14 pm

BoogtehWoog wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:The problem with restricting same sphere pvp too much is that the mud then becomes too much like real life where people think they can go around mouthing off and being jerks without any fear of repercussion.


Absolutely; however, I think we are talking about degrees of PvP. Someone getting popped in the mouth for being a complete arse? It probably shouldn't be too odd to see here and then and not something that leads to much in the way of IG consequences with regards to the Guard. Assaulting someone with a weapon, on the other hand, should provoke a very different response.

I guess we'll see how it all develops as the alpha comes along. And with the Guard starting to grow, we'll probably get to put all of this into action soon.


I don't think it'll be too much of a problem really. There's just really no good IC reason for indiscriminate murder in the human sphere. Orcs, I can see fighting a lot, but maybe more to surrender than death. I think we'll be ok. We might get a few murderers here and there, but I imagine they will be taken care of quickly.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby kingsfoil » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:31 pm

There should not be, in any shape or form, OOC restriction on PVP, be it sphere vs. sphere, or same-sphere.

Should there be IC consequences, in both spheres? Absolutely.

To make OOC "rules of engagement," or any sort of restrictions on IC behavior, in an RPI, is very much at odds with the authentic experience the game should be trying to create.

As in any good story, conflict is what drives it. There is uninteresting conflict ("I'm going to kill you because my character's a murderer because I really just want to skill up"), sure. There's also interesting conflict. Without it, the game is boring.

Let staff determine if someone is being a detriment to the game, or not, with their behavior, by evaluating their behavior, rather than restricting it before the fact.
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Re: PVP General Thread

Postby Icarus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:39 pm

Rules of Engagement:
Before combat, one must first become limber. Three uses of the sit and stand command are required.
Once that has occurred, introductions must be made. Please state your name and account name.
Then, identify your target by stating their name. Please provide a compliment to them.
Bow to them, out of respect to the martial arts.
Once you have done all this, request permission to attack, and utilize the hit command.
For your safety, we have disabled kill entirely.
[Petition: Player] I am ready to begin my interdimensional adventure.

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