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Arrows seem too powerful

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Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Letters » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:56 pm

Arrows appear to stand head and shoulders above anything else in the game for sheer damage potential. That seems a bit off.

My suggestion:

Raw damage output should be slashed, and, really, I don't see much good reason for an arrow to deal blood damage that does more than two HP worth per tick -- more is just excessive. Arrows shouldn't be able to pass through anything but maybe an arm or a leg either -- even then, I'd just remove the potential for exit wounds.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby radioactivejesus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:18 pm

yeah, a lot of the exit wound and ultra-bleeding code there is was put in there to reflect machineguns and rifles. Likely to be a few things that don't quite make sense for bows.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:27 pm

Ever been shot by a longbow?
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby tehkory » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:28 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:Ever been shot by a longbow?


"Reality" vs. game balance is an issue here. Ever had a longbow smash into your head and lodge there? Nah. 'cause your dead.


Doesn't mean it makes the game balanced or fun.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Jeshin » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:29 pm

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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Throttle » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:29 pm

Yeah, the exit wounds are a bit over the top. Arrows seem to do damage comparable to bullets on top of being much more readily available, and there's no good armour currently in the game.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:37 pm

tehkory wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:Ever been shot by a longbow?


"Reality" vs. game balance is an issue here. Ever had a longbow smash into your head and lodge there? Nah. 'cause your dead.


Doesn't mean it makes the game balanced or fun.


I understand that, I was just making a point. However, I've always felt balance is overrated. It annoys me when you're in an rp situation holding someone at arrow point and they just rush you because they know arrows won't hurt too much and then you have to reload and they can just wail on you with their melee weapon. People -should- be wetting themselves if they have an arrow trained on them.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Letters » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:41 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:
tehkory wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:Ever been shot by a longbow?


"Reality" vs. game balance is an issue here. Ever had a longbow smash into your head and lodge there? Nah. 'cause your dead.


Doesn't mean it makes the game balanced or fun.


I understand that, I was just making a point. However, I've always felt balance is overrated. It annoys me when you're in an rp situation holding someone at arrow point and they just rush you because they know arrows won't hurt too much and then you have to reload and they can just wail on you with their melee weapon. People -should- be wetting themselves if they have an arrow trained on them.


Eh. Getting your stomach chopped open with an axe isn't lethal. Taking a spear right through your leg doesn't cripple you. Having your skull cracked with a club doesn't leave you in a coma. Arrows shouldn't be an exception - otherwise we get people dying in one hit, boars getting stuck on spears, etc. etc. Combat on RPIs is perhaps best viewed as an abstraction of reality.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:47 pm

I'm not saying they should be one hit killers, just that I don't mind them being a bit more deadly for the reason I listed above. People made bows for a reason, they're more efficient than getting up close and personal.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby kingsfoil » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:50 pm

Combat should be deadly. People should fear lethal combat. It isn't something for the faint of heart. In an RPI, it shouldn't be something your character does for shits and giggles.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby BoogtehWoog » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:54 pm

kingsfoil wrote:Combat should be deadly. People should fear lethal combat. It isn't something for the faint of heart. In an RPI, it shouldn't be something your character does for shits and giggles.


True enough, but there must be balance to the combat for the sake of playability.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Icarus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:40 pm

Arrows are bullets and your bows are rifles.

I saw someone take a point blank arrow to the head today.

He actually only got dropped about 30 points.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Letters » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:51 pm

Icarus wrote:Arrows are bullets and your bows are rifles.

I saw someone take a point blank arrow to the head today.

He actually only got dropped about 30 points.


If arrows are intended to be that strong, a sword ought to function as effectively as, say, a lightsabre you could load into game. There's a really big disparity between regular weapons and bows and arrows. Can think of a few reasons I don't much like that-- amongst others, that you don't even have to put your character at direct risk to use the things, and that 'sniping' could get decidedly hellish. Don't have time to post more right now, though.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Tiamat » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:04 pm

Actually, I think arrows are fine where they are. They're pretty OP against wildlife because wildlife doesn't know how to bind. Are you suggesting that using a bow to hunt wildlife ISN'T supposed to be the best option? Arrows aren't going to work half as well in PvP against a smart opponent, granted they can hide, run away, bind, etc.

It takes quite awhile for a boar to bleed out from a good hit, and I'm sure you'd be waiting for a long time before a warg or bigger bled out. That said, have you been seeing a lot of exit wounds? I haven't seen any. The arrows generally lodge into the mob and stay there. I haven't seen exit-wounds to warrant two whopping bleeders. Besides nerfing that, if it happens, I don't see why bows shouldn't be the name of the game for hunting game.

Why should melee weapons be just as viable as bows, as far as hunting wildlife goes?
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Tiamat wrote:Actually, I think arrows are fine where they are. They're pretty OP against wildlife because wildlife doesn't know how to bind. Are you suggesting that using a bow to hunt wildlife ISN'T supposed to be the best option? Arrows aren't going to work half as well in PvP against a smart opponent, granted they can hide, run away, bind, etc.

It takes quite awhile for a boar to bleed out from a good hit, and I'm sure you'd be waiting for a long time before a warg or bigger bled out. That said, have you been seeing a lot of exit wounds? I haven't seen any. The arrows generally lodge into the mob and stay there. I haven't seen exit-wounds to warrant two whopping bleeders. Besides nerfing that, if it happens, I don't see why bows shouldn't be the name of the game for hunting game.

Why should melee weapons be just as viable as bows, as far as hunting wildlife goes?


Because people don't like other people having an advantage.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Letters » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:22 pm

Seen animals with moderately decent natural armour and a chunk of HP take multiple exit wounds, and frequent spurting or mortally bleeding wounds.

On old SoI, people with hide, sneak and a bow could harass a group for a while by way of blatant twinking. It would apply doubly here, where hide is more powerful (works more quickly at high skill, harder to find a person with high hide), and bleeding wounds need to be bound immediately in most cases.

Drop arrow damage down. Let them cause bleeding wounds against animals. If it takes longer for an animal to bleed out, then a hunter can just track it for a while.

Anyhow. Off to bed.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Icarus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:25 pm

You'll be fine when you get better than cloth armor ;)
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Jeshin » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:25 pm

I have a question. When staff hear these complaints. Do you guys have like a bunch of normal PCs on the build port that you load up and test? Have you thought of loading up buildport PCs or getting volunteers to test some of the 'pvp' concerns here oooooor are you waiting for the orcs/humans to have a few skirmishes and use info from there to balance?
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Icarus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:27 pm

We have orcs. They are generally our test bed. Better than NPCs, because they try and and live. A pesky habit.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby radioactivejesus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:32 pm

oh, something I just thought of... Have shields been fixed so that they can block projectiles once again? I know back in atonement it was changed so that shields didn't do shit in a ranged battle
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:38 pm

Shields should get a bonus to blocking arrows, maybe based on size. That would be a good, tactical way to face arrow fire. Even better if a command could be implemented to let you fortify yourself behind your shield and get an even bigger bonus as long as you remain still or aren't in combat.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby radioactivejesus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:40 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:Shields should get a bonus to blocking arrows, maybe based on size. That would be a good, tactical way to face arrow fire. Even better if a command could be implemented to let you fortify yourself behind your shield and get an even bigger bonus as long as you remain still or aren't in combat.

cover <direction> does this nicely, and stacks with holding a shield. Just got to make sure arrow blocking with shields is set back to the way it was in the old SOI, rather than atonement's changes
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby MrDvAnt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:44 pm

Well there you go. I forgot about the cover command. :p
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby Nimrod » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:53 pm

Jeshin wrote:I have a question. When staff hear these complaints. Do you guys have like a bunch of normal PCs on the build port that you load up and test? Have you thought of loading up buildport PCs or getting volunteers to test some of the 'pvp' concerns here oooooor are you waiting for the orcs/humans to have a few skirmishes and use info from there to balance?


Like Icarus said, on the Player Port we have orcs, who are more than happy to test things out for us. On the Builder Port we have Khamul. That guy can sure take an arrow.
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Re: Arrows seem too powerful

Postby BoogtehWoog » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:39 pm

Nimrod wrote:Like Icarus said, on the Player Port we have orcs, who are more than happy to test things out for us. On the Builder Port we have Khamul. That guy can sure take an arrow.


Staff are using Orcs as test subjects!

#YesAllOrcs. SOI players against Orc testing rise up! :x :mrgreen:
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