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Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

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Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Onasaki » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:27 pm

Gonna put this here, for a suggestion for game-wide ideas that you'd like to see. Not specific to either sphere.

It was a random thought that I had, something that'd be neat would be Craft Timers being based on the amount of RP you do outside of crafting. Makes the timer go down just a little faster.

I'm not sure how this would work out, in the long run, though.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby LuckyV » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:01 pm

Lower game difficulty. Less focus on squalor and need to scrape by. Wear and tear code is exhausting.


Sparring weapons should do stamina or stun damage. If you make a combatant with more than 4-5 skills then it really sucks to get moderates or even severes every sparring match, which lasts for ten seconds.


Put plenty of subtle magic IG. And a little bit of not so subtle.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby MrT2G » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:29 am

More squalor!
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby jdidds » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:13 am

Vok ;)
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Erythil » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:01 am

LuckyV wrote:Lower game difficulty. Less focus on squalor and need to scrape by. Wear and tear code is exhausting.


Sparring weapons shouldndo stamina or stun damage. If you make a combatant with mire than 4-5 skills then it really sucks to get moderates or even severes every sparring match, which lasts for ten seconds.


Put plenty of subtle magic IG. And a little bit of not so subtle.


Seconding all of this, especially sparring.

Also, it's currently impossible to yield if you are stunned during sparring. This is very dangerous for obvious reasons.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:06 am

Sparring needs a downside. That downside is you get injured and can't go out for a bit. You're already upping your combat skills in a completely safe environment. Now you want to remove the one downside to it?
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Icarus » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:12 am

Definitely lots of subtle magic about ;)

As for sparring... you are beating each other ferociously with heavy sticky of solid wood. Perhaps setting your effort to 25 or 50, and setting defensive?

Agreed that not being able to surrender while stunned is an issue.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Letters » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:30 am

Fractures need to be addressed. The natural healing rate is incredibly low, if it exists at all, and the fracture won't disappear as an infection does until the injury is very nearly healed.

On Atonement, we got around this by a skilled medic with the proper medication attending to a person repeatedly - or at least, I had to do this a few times - to help heal it by expertly treating it. The tools to do so do not exist here.

Set effort makes a tangible difference?
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby tehkory » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:37 am

Letters wrote:Fractures need to be addressed. The natural healing rate is incredibly low, if it exists at all, and the fracture won't disappear as an infection does until the injury is very nearly healed.

On Atonement, we got around this by a skilled medic with the proper medication attending to a person repeatedly - or at least, I had to do this a few times - to help heal it by expertly treating it. The tools to do so do not exist here.

Set effort makes a tangible difference?

Set effort has never been worth shit for damage rolls afai can tell.

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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby LuckyV » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:53 am

Icarus wrote:Definitely lots of subtle magic about ;)

As for sparring... you are beating each other ferociously with heavy sticky of solid wood. Perhaps setting your effort to 25 or 50, and setting defensive?

Agreed that not being able to surrender while stunned is an issue.


Yeah so you go to train with your partner and then split his skull with a stick. Because he has to learn a lesson, right?

You go there to practice holding a sword properly and swinging properly.


Make it so that you can spar raise your skill to mid familiar or adroit and then it's only combat.





The problem: You start out with very bad skills because you selected 8, but thought okay I can still raise them IG. But you can't spar properly because you get K.O.ed in a few rounds simply due to your low skills. So that means that you haven't raised your skill at all unless you got really lucky to raise it in those couple strikes you had the opportunity to make.

Then you spend the rest few RL days rping in the infirmary. Then it's all the same.


And now I just don't have the energy to log in for the same thing.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Icarus » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:56 am

Have you considered having one of the more experienced folks teach you, holding some sort of a lesson IG?

I'll take a peek at their damage, but last I checked it was quite low.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby tehkory » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:04 am

Icarus wrote:Definitely lots of subtle magic about ;)

As for sparring... you are beating each other ferociously with heavy sticky of solid wood. Perhaps setting your effort to 25 or 50, and setting defensive?

Agreed that not being able to surrender while stunned is an issue.


Set pacifist when your opponent's down or even just when you want to end the fight.

ETA: and just drop your damnable weapons when someone's down if you can't.

Afa fractures and concussions go, why don't we just make training weapons pierce rather than remove one of the legitimate reasons to use blunt damage?
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Tepes » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:09 am

I've seen foam weapons give fractures and heavy bruises. Foam.

I think it's perfectly okay for wooden weapons to deal some pretty hefty damage.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Songweaver » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:11 am

Piercing weapons have an increased chance of dealing bleeders. Set Effort affects skill levels but not damage. Set Careful is what you want, but even that won't entirely solve the problem with broken bones/etc.

IMO, sparring is dangerous and should have consequences.

The other option is to make a low level two-man "sparring" craft that has a rather large timer, drains stamina and is only good up to familiar level of skill (with checks vs weapon-type and deflect). IMO, this is what sparring should be. Sparring shouldn't be used to reach "Talented" level of skills, unless you're willing to accept broken bones or bleeders.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby tehkory » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:13 am

_
Songweaver wrote:
The other option is to make a low level two-man "sparring" craft that has a rather large timer, drains stamina and is only good up to familiar level of skill. IMO, this is what sparring should be. Sparring shouldn't be used to reach "Talented" level of skills, unless you're willing to accept broken bones or bleeders.


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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby someguy » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:52 am

Food should be more filling.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:57 am

someguy wrote:Food should be more filling.


Agreed.

It still takes upwards of 10+ roasted bits of meat to get full. Kind of immersion breaking to have to spam 'eat all boar' a dozen times.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Hazgarn » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:20 am

Songweaver wrote:The other option is to make a low level two-man "sparring" craft that has a rather large timer, drains stamina and is only good up to familiar level of skill (with checks vs weapon-type and deflect). IMO, this is what sparring should be. Sparring shouldn't be used to reach "Talented" level of skills, unless you're willing to accept broken bones or bleeders.

This might be interesting. It's also possible for crafts to cause damage directly, if I'm not mistaken. I know there were a few training crafts in old SOI that caused damage (and more of it for shitty skill rolls). Making the craft require actual other players would be a good fix for the problem those had of antisocial training behaviors...
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Mithrandur » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:21 am

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Sparring needs a downside. That downside is you get injured and can't go out for a bit. You're already upping your combat skills in a completely safe environment. Now you want to remove the one downside to it?



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    You have a minor bruise on the thorax, a moderate crush on the thorax, a small
    bruise on the left forearm, a grievous contusion on the right hip
    (fractured), and a moderate contusion on the abdomen.
   
    Overall Health:    **   
    Remaining Stamina: ||||||
    Trauma Sustained:  ^^^^^^


Yes. completely safe and not at all dangerous. Nope. FYI, codedly, practice weapons are just as effective as the weapons everyone started with, so no. It isn't all that safe.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby toofast » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:53 am

Higher game difficulty. More focus on squalor and need to scrape by. Wear and tear code is exciting.

Also, fixed weapon crafts would be neat.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Bones » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:21 pm

I don't think it's unrealistic to need to consume all that food. It can take up to a full RL 24 hours, to go to starving. That's what.. 4? 5 IG days? More? So when you think about it.. 12 pieces of meat, over the course of five days isn't that much. It wouldn't be so much if folks went and ate regularly. Often people wait until a patrol, or they want to go do something.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby BoogtehWoog » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:27 pm

Compared to old SOI, it is much better. You constantly had to eat and drink before. I don't personally see an issue here.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby kestrel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:57 pm

tehkory wrote:_
Songweaver wrote:
The other option is to make a low level two-man "sparring" craft that has a rather large timer, drains stamina and is only good up to familiar level of skill. IMO, this is what sparring should be. Sparring shouldn't be used to reach "Talented" level of skills, unless you're willing to accept broken bones or bleeders.


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I've been thinking of suggesting the same thing for a while now. Atonement actually had crafts like this during ALPHA. Allowing newer PCs to reach, say, low-Familiar levels with combat skills this way seems fair to me. Crafts definitely shouldn't be a means of reaching Talented, though, especially if we're expecting PCs' skills to cap at lower values than for ARPI.

ETA: And crafts should raise weapon skills, NOT Deflect, Dual-Wield, or Sole-Wield.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby Throttle » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:04 pm

Well, you already start out familiar in your weapon skill if your associated stats are high, and why should training not raise the other combat skills?

There's an odd taboo against sparring that has existed since Atonement came about. I think it was understandable for that game because sparring felt sort of unnatural in a survival-horror setting with a supernatural enemy and where people were barely scraping by and living in constant resource scarcity -- not to mention the fact that guns existed and should have made melee weapons a backup thing instead of the primary method of fighting that the code mandated. These things made sparring routines seem unrealistic and "gamist."

This is Middle-Earth, however. People are soldiers, and the only thing that really threatens them is a thing that can be responded to in one way only: the sword. It's one of the defining themes of the setting, in fact. Combat training would be a part of daily life for anyone in that profession. It also happens to be one of the only things you can really do to convey the routines and rigors of the soldier role, since battles happen really rarely and patrols are almost always completely uneventful.

More importantly, however: it makes no sense for sparring to be able to teach you only the basics. That's simply not how training works. You become a master through training, not through trial and error. The last steps towards fulfilled potential might require real battle experience, but there are no grounds for relegating sparring to basic newbie training. It's neither realistic nor really beneficial to the game.

In fact, those who have played Armageddon might have discovered that one of the worst ways to become good at fighting in that game is to be a soldier (despite their bizarrely strict clan training schedules) and the best is to go out and randomly kill animals (or people, but that's scarcely an option here). This is the reality you face when you make sparring ineffectual beyond middling skill levels.

Now, I don't know if I would actually want sparring to remain effective all the way until master level. It was on the original SOI and I think it was a little bit over the top, especially since some of the clans straight up had an NPC you could spar with at will. However, I think that definitely talented, and possibly even adroit, should be possible via training. Without this, there'll be too much emphasis on wolf and boar genocide, and not enough margin to set soldiers apart from hunters.
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Re: Shadows of Isildur Wishlist

Postby BoogtehWoog » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:20 pm

Superb post, Throttle!
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