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Utterby Wish List

A place for Staff and players alike to use to coordinate RPTs and in-game events. No IC info, please.

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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby WorkerDrone » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:41 am

I wasn't about to verbally chew anyone out, like a couple other dudes just did, which by the way wasn't classy.

But it was a foul, yes, and it shouldn't be a repeat incident, once the lesson gets learned, but I suppose you guys are right, it wasn't made clear enough from the start, so it should probably be rectified.

Also, I think a lot of people in the Orc sphere are operating under the understanding that the entirety of the tunnel system in their sphere is "their equivalent of Utterby".

In which case, it needs some gate operators like Utterby has and a lock on the entrances to make that clearer.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Songweaver » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:44 am

With huntable mobs that can kill an orc in the tunnels (and be useful as a resource), it doesn't seem to me that the entirety of the tunnel system should be vNPCly guarded. That's like putting boar on the Utterby docks. But, I think we've concluded the nature of the misunderstanding.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby kingsfoil » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:49 am

I agree that clear in-game communication, in the form of NPCs, different room descriptions, and so on, regarding the reality of the situation in and immediately around the mountain, would be helpful.

Regarding the idea that such an action as this charge is intrinsically an "OOC" foul, I'll use an example from another RPI, Armageddon. In Armageddon, there are two cities, and they hate each other. If a small force tried to enter the other city's gate, they'd be killed.

Is it twinky to try to enter and attack the gate? Not if your PC is suicidal, or so blinded by hatred and bloodlust that they don't care. It is, of course, important that the vNPC reality be enforced, and that your gate-charging PC get slaughtered. If NPCs aren't in the game to do this automatically, admins need to be alerted prior to the attack, yes.

In this case, the charge happened because I didn't know there was any town, or any vNPC strength, that was being attacked. Therefore, I didn't think that admins needed to be notified. Not doing so was the only "foul," here. As I said, it was borne out of my having incorrect ideas about the situation.

However, just to make a point - if admins are notified, or there are NPCs at the gates, and you charge them anyway? That isn't a foul, or twinky, or OOC, or anything. As long as the IC consequences (your certain death) are enforced. Some characters just don't care if they die, when the right buttons are pressed.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby MrDvAnt » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:57 am

It would be swell if we could give people the benefit of the doubt and assume something like this was a mistake until it's investigated and found to be otherwise. Immediately running to the forum to scream, shout and point fingers is pretty reactionary and(sorry, but it's true) a bit immature. Most of the human players who haven't played orcs probably have no idea IC or OOC exactly where the orc stronghold is to begin. Hell, I've played both and I still hardly know where they are in relation to each other. :p
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby radioactivejesus » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:23 am

kingsfoil wrote:

4. I'm not casting blame, here, because I don't think it's wrong considering the situation, but the human side was not the one to start the no-RP movement in this particular situation. Prior to the actual charge, there was orcish spam running around the tunnels that told me "okay, the orcs aren't interested in RP."

The general rule is, if you give RP in combat situations, you get RP. If you act like you aren't going to RP, don't expect it in return.


This isn't the first time today players have camped out and tried to attack us in that exact location outside our door with 0 RP and jumping straight to code.. The presence of the same players from the first attack who had discovered our door and immediately went to combat set a bad taste in my mouth for the second arrival. If you expect us to show proper roleplay in a combative situation, you should try to help reign in your own playerbase from treating the game like a hack & slash first (edit: this sounds more inflammatory than I intended. Most of you guys are probably fine, it's the minority that is ruining shit for everyone) (double edit: I'll try to help do the same, I'm sure the orc players aren't without faults either). I'd love to get into some well roleplayed combat scenes with you, and you seem to be responsible enough to make it a fun experience.. but when I'm used to getting sent straight to code before I can type out my first line, I tend to assume the worst and just do what will keep my pc alive to enjoy the game.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Songweaver » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:27 am

An ambush isn't an ambush if you break hide for an emote before you strike. Similarly, I'm not going to take time to emote when I'm getting lit up by arrows from three rooms away.

Meeting on the open field, two or more opposing PCs in one room and all aware of each other, that is a great opportunity for some roleplay. There is no coded advantage to jumping the gun first. But ambushes and archery are different, and the code wins out because that's precisely why it exists.

ETA: Despite the player's not knowing that he was walking at your "town door", none of us walked into the room and went to code. We walked into the room and the other party walked out immediately. I'm not pointing fingers or placing blame.

This entire conversation's a bit too reactionary for my tastes.
Last edited by Songweaver on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby tehkory » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:29 am

radioactivejesus wrote:
kingsfoil wrote:

4. I'm not casting blame, here, because I don't think it's wrong considering the situation, but the human side was not the one to start the no-RP movement in this particular situation. Prior to the actual charge, there was orcish spam running around the tunnels that told me "okay, the orcs aren't interested in RP."

The general rule is, if you give RP in combat situations, you get RP. If you act like you aren't going to RP, don't expect it in return.


This isn't the first time today players have camped out and tried to attack us in that exact location outside our door with 0 RP and jumping straight to code.. The presence of the same players from the first attack who had discovered our door and immediately went to combat set a bad taste in my mouth for the second arrival. If you expect us to show proper roleplay in a combative situation, you should try to help reign in your own playerbase from treating the game like a hack & slash first (edit: this sounds more inflammatory than I intended. Most of you guys are probably fine, it's the minority that is ruining shit for everyone) (double edit: I'll try to help do the same, I'm sure the orc players aren't without faults either). I'd love to get into some well roleplayed combat scenes with you, and you seem to be responsible enough to make it a fun experience.. but when I'm used to getting sent straight to code before I can type out my first line, I tend to assume the worst and just do what will keep my pc alive to enjoy the game.


Honestly, if I may? We OOCly discussed -ensuring- you guys got roleplayed with. And the player that's being trashed the most went out of his way to OOCly make sure that everyone was aware we needed to roleplay, as well as making -everyone- on the humanside FULLY AWARE, via OOC, that the orcs he'd played with previously had played the previous scene out with skill and grace.

It's a little sad that the person getting insulted the most here was the one that was OOCly feeling the best about the other players' participation.

ETA:
Really, kudos for that player taking the time to remind us all, not only are the orcs players, too, but they're damn good ones.

Kudos.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby WorkerDrone » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:38 am

I'm not saying that I might not have hurt the dude's feelings for being a little presumptuous, but just because he's excused for messing up doesn't mean he didn't mess up, it just means he'll go the full-length to make sure it gets done right next time.

The person in question is competent and compliant enough to ensure no rules are being broken and the maximum amount of fun can be had given the circumstances for all parties. Yeah, some people shouldn't have mouthed off at him, but at least he knows he legitimately gave them a fright, so in a way that's an observable reward from one standpoint, it means that the incident was worthy of discussion in game and out, and it might possibly come with some coded responses to it.

Finally, I'll only say it one more time, but I definitely didn't intend on chewing anyone out, even despite being upset that what happened happened, given it happened before and there was bitching to be had the last time too. And I was playing in the sphere responsible for it!

I'm not thrilled that people had mud to sling around, so yeah, don't do that if y'all can help it. I mean, if you keep slinging mud, no one can stop you, but no one will like that you're doing it either.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby radioactivejesus » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:48 am

WorkerDrone wrote:
I'm not thrilled that people had mud to sling around, so yeah, don't do that if y'all can help it. I mean, if you keep slinging mud, no one can stop you, but no one will like that you're doing it either.

yep, I'll stop with the mud slinging for now. I feel I may only have second hand knowledge of the twinking that may or may not have occured. I don't think I'm wrong, but if I am infact mistaken about what happened, I'm just driving the conversation in a negative direction, so I'll shut up for now.
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The orc mountain needs more security, npcs and the descriptions of outlying rooms changed to show that there truly are orcs living there so humans are aware.

There are good roleplayers on both sides, and we should all do our best to keep the game enjoyable for everyone.

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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby kingsfoil » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:51 am

I fully recognize that this event is legitimate cause for discussion. In fact, this is a good thing; this is an alpha, after all. The time for changes to be made. This incident has pointed out that some atmospheric/environmental changes need to be made to the orcish area so that players are better aware of vNPC realities there.

It's good that boundaries are being pushed. It will help us better define them and how they should be respected, and that will only have good outcomes.

To make some final points:

- WorkerDrone, I think you've been quite reasonable in this discussion.

- As Songweaver said, we never actually attacked. Could I have sprinted ahead and spammed guard west? Or snuck ahead and attacked, tying orcs up for reinforcements? Yes to both, but neither of those things happened.

I'll tell you that if we had gotten in the same room with orcs, and they had emoted sounding alarms and orcish shouts rising up in the tunnels or some such thing, I would have respected that and retreated.

By the way, I'll point out, regarding the skirmish that happened earlier in the day, that of the orcish participants, all but the one who was ambushed attacked voluntarily, as in they came into the room and sought out combat. Nobody forced them.

I'll also point out that nobody was chased and killed, despite how concussed and bleeding they may or may not have been, and despite my not knowing at the time that there was any vNPC strength in the area to deter such chasing and killing.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Songweaver » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:55 am

Reader's Digest:

We want meaningful conflict, too. Don't assume the worst.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby kestrel » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:02 am

The only useful commentary I have is the one I usually offer:

Don't forget to write an in-game board post!
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby soiacc » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:20 am

Archery range or at least crude bale targets. Not only could they be for practice, but also for fun events like tournaments.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Songweaver » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:24 am

soiacc wrote:Archery range or at least crude bale targets. Not only could they be for practice, but also for fun events like tournaments.


Most definitely.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby soiacc » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:27 am

As an offshoot to that, would darts be invented? A dartboard in the gambling den of the Inn could be fun.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby WildGiller » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:17 am

Bows.
Bale Targets.
Darts.

I want these things too.

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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby RiderOnTheStorm » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:41 am

Bows, pleeeeaaase. At least stick newbie bows on a shop NPC. Last I knew, weapon kits don't repair wood, and my character is on his second bow, which is damaged, and appears to be useless based on my hit rate with talented-bow.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby deerskin » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:44 am

Medicine.

Poultice and other salve-bandage crafts.

Teeeaaaa.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby WildGiller » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:04 pm

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:Bows, pleeeeaaase. At least stick newbie bows on a shop NPC. Last I knew, weapon kits don't repair wood, and my character is on his second bow, which is damaged, and appears to be useless based on my hit rate with talented-bow.


Newbie bow NPC until craftable yes yes yes yes yes ..(continues infinity)

Also, yeah. Nothing will repair shields either. Those get ruined pretty fast too it seems like. Need repair kits flagged with wood or something or flag shields / bows as leather (straps/sinew?)
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Throttle » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:43 pm

Well, it's realistic enough that shields break quickly. They're also really easy and cheap to make, so I view them as something that should just be made in bulk and thrown away when spent rather than kept for a long time and repaired each time it gets damaged. Historically, wooden shields were disposable.

Bows, however, should last a good while -- I'm pretty sure it's not historically accurate for a longbow to wear out in a matter or a month or two of very casual use. Mine got worn after firing it something like fifty times, so I'm guessing they have about 200 durability and lose 1 per shot, which is silly.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Hazgarn » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:14 pm

soiacc wrote:As an offshoot to that, would darts be invented? A dartboard in the gambling den of the Inn could be fun.

A ring-tossing type game would be interesting. Make a craft that carves wooden rings and a pegged board as the target to hook the rings on. Then a craft for scoring tosses.

(Actually, we could probably just use one of the racks of antlers we've got lying around and make do with emotes and "roll vs Aim" until the crafts exist.)
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Hawkwind » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:49 pm

Did professional swordsmen, in both battle and contest, not use several shields during an engagement?
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby krelm » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:00 pm

Someone wrote:Bows in shops


While possible, the hardcoded price of bows (a price that can't be altered by anyone, except by Nimrod going through the code and changing it) would kind of hinder this. I think the cheapest bow is like 200cp, so no one would be able to buy it in the newbie shop. I guess it could be loaded IG, but it's possible for the NPC to mark it up to 400, which is a heavy chunk of change.

I -could- modify the weapon repair kits to be able to use wood, I'd just have to figure out how to do that.

Someone else wrote:Medicine


I kept hearing word that some builder somewhere was working on this, so I never paid much attention to it. I have noticed recently that there's basically no way to replenish medkits outside of buying more of them, so maybe I'll add in a craft that either replenishes a nearly-spent kit, or one that makes the kits, if I'm feeling particularly motivated at any point.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby soiacc » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:03 pm

Shields were used more for deflecting blows than blocking them head on. A shield could break on a single charge against someone with a lance. Metal was reserved for smaller shields, bucklers.
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Re: Utterby Wish List

Postby Nailah » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:42 pm

Please post crafts and items to make in the crafts thread. I'm only checking this because I was pointed to the Orc wish list and thought there might be some things in here too. There is way too much argument and derail for me to wade through. If you want something crafted IG, visit the crafts forums! People can probably tell you I am fairly responsive if I actually see things in a clear, not-derailed format.
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