Orcish Song/Dance and Celebration Discussion

[Justanothacivy]

Culture, storytelling, and other things of substance that will create an orcish atmosphere we can be proud to share with old and new players alike.

Bring in your own ideas and lets hear what there is to say on the topic. It has been brought up that there isn't much documentation, true so let's create something believable and enjoyable!

[Zargen]

When ever I think of orcs dancing or do it myself I tend to draw inspiration from multiple real-life sources. Native Americans. African Tribes and Maori warriors doing the haka among other things.

[Matt]

HEY YOU DON'T HAVE TO GLOAT!!!! <3

[Zargen]

Warriors of the fight
For our tribes and our homes
We will win or die
Forever we are orcs!

[Matt]

I think you should do
Some awesome orcish haikus
Because that would rule

[radioactivejesus]

here is the whip
the goblins protest warfare
lash lord gives no fucks

[Matt]

here is the whip
the goblins protest warfare
lash lord gives no fucks

Haiku fail.

[radioactivejesus]

here is the whip
the goblins protest warfare
lash lord gives no fucks

Haiku fail.

syllable counter said 5, 7, 5
I don't understand this weaboo shit

[tehkory]

here is the whip
the goblins protest warfare
lash lord gives no fucks

Haiku fail.

syllable counter said 5, 7, 5
I don't understand this weaboo shit

you did four not five
you fail to produce haiku
unlike this success

[Snapdragon]

Masterful! Well done Tehkory

[MarcusSaint]

here is the whip
the goblins protest warfare
lash lord gives no fucks

you did four not five
you fail to produce haiku
unlike this success

It's pronounced Whip-puh.

Any ork worth 'is salt knows that.

[Hawkwind]

Is orc, find tark, take life. Is good to orc.
Slavboo > weeaboo.

Also firedancing, drums and banging on things and spatting.

Now spatting is something unique which more often than not gets ruined by the loosing player picking up his sword and attacking the victor. Spatting, to my understanding, was ritual baiting used to get under each others skin, not just to come up with tbe foulest, disgusting insult. Tbe point was to get tbe other orc angry and upset, if tbey reached for a weapkn the failed.

[MrDvAnt]

If there's to be dancing and celebrating I think it's very important to take into consideration the reason the the revel. Many dancing, drinking, and partying situations that we are used to, being humans ourselves, are to celebrate something. Harvest festivals, Christmas parties, New Year's Eve, birthdays, etc.

An orc would never celebrate something with any kind of positive aspect. Birth and renewal and ideas like them are a Good thing. Orcs would possibly celebrate a battle victory, but even then the flavor would not be celebrating their victory because they are happy to be alive like many human battle celebrations would be. They'd be celebrating the death and destruction they rained upon the other side.

They might dance and drink as a ritual, seeking the favor of whatever they follow, or performing rituals based in mysticism. This is rambly and I'm having a hard time coming to my point. I just woke up. The general idea is that I think we need to be careful about what the orcs might be celebrating with any event like this.

[Oblivion]

Only examples I can give are from past experiences... But early early Gothakra used to have funerals for fallen uruks who died in combat. The bodies would be ritually dismembered to 'make it easy' for that uruk 'spirit' to 'return to the mountain' ... Which was where the Gothakra tribes came from and the general 'belief' in the tribe was that strong warriors would get reborn and have another chance to kill many soft-skins.

This would be accompanied by lots of drinking, general bragging about personal skills, and of course the 'spatting' contests. The spatting is good though, even if it comes to someone drawing a weapon, it just has to be tempered by everyone else around them mocking whoever draws first as the loser of the 'event', and not goading the fight to continue into actual loss of life. Biggest thing to these sorts of 'contests' would be that the player has to understand that the orc wouldn't really hold a grudge for being baited into drawing a weapon and should concede the loss as if it were a physical spar. Honestly we beat the crap out of one another on a daily basis and don't get uptight when we lose a spar, why would it be any different when throwing words?

Then there was the ever favorite 'skins only' brawls that the entire tribe would get in to, with everyone taking much care to leave the unconscious alone or have them dragged away as the brawl goes on. These are kind of what led to the development of boot-skull, which is almost the same thing but with designated teams and a few loose rules such as the 'goals'.

There also used to be the fire-talks, which go along the lines of boasting about one's self in front of everyone else and generally trying to make yourself sound good. again that comes with the understanding that most times people listening wouldn't degrade to demeaning the story-teller for potential lies and flagrancy.

[MrDvAnt]

Only examples I can give are from past experiences... But early early Gothakra used to have funerals for fallen uruks who died in combat. The bodies would be ritually dismembered to 'make it easy' for that uruk 'spirit' to 'return to the mountain' ... Which was where the Gothakra tribes came from and the general 'belief' in the tribe was that strong warriors would get reborn and have another chance to kill many soft-skins.

This would be accompanied by lots of drinking, general bragging about personal skills, and of course the 'spatting' contests. The spatting is good though, even if it comes to someone drawing a weapon, it just has to be tempered by everyone else around them mocking whoever draws first as the loser of the 'event', and not goading the fight to continue into actual loss of life. Biggest thing to these sorts of 'contests' would be that the player has to understand that the orc wouldn't really hold a grudge for being baited into drawing a weapon and should concede the loss as if it were a physical spar. Honestly we beat the crap out of one another on a daily basis and don't get uptight when we lose a spar, why would it be any different when throwing words?

Then there was the ever favorite 'skins only' brawls that the entire tribe would get in to, with everyone taking much care to leave the unconscious alone or have them dragged away as the brawl goes on. These are kind of what led to the development of boot-skull, which is almost the same thing but with designated teams and a few loose rules such as the 'goals'.

There also used to be the fire-talks, which go along the lines of boasting about one's self in front of everyone else and generally trying to make yourself sound good. again that comes with the understanding that most times people listening wouldn't degrade to demeaning the story-teller for potential lies and flagrancy.

I understand that the old days can be alluring, but I'd hesitate to have orcs even have funerals. Caring that someone died and wanting to send their spirit on is assuming a nobility of spirit and personality. I don't think they'd care that one of their own had fallen. Maybe if a strong leader died, they'd be dismayed and a bit scared of their enemy, but they wouldn't feel the need to have a funeral to help them overcome the loss of a loved one like we do.

[Oblivion]

Understandable sentiment as well. As I've said when coming back, I don't particularly want to be influential in how the orcs of this incarnation 'evolve'. But almost any conversation about the subjects of uruks tends to get me drawn in and wanting to participate.

So all in all, take my nostalgic attempts at fleshing out the race with a few grains of salt I suppose. I won't be arguing too hard to push my opinions, just tossing things out there on the subjects.

[Hazgarn]

I understand that the old days can be alluring, but I'd hesitate to have orcs even have funerals. Caring that someone died and wanting to send their spirit on is assuming a nobility of spirit and personality. I don't think they'd care that one of their own had fallen. Maybe if a strong leader died, they'd be dismayed and a bit scared of their enemy, but they wouldn't feel the need to have a funeral to help them overcome the loss of a loved one like we do.

Whether or not orcs are capable of mourning their dead deeply the way humans do is a question I'll leave to players who have played orcs. I haven't yet. That said there are other potential motivations a culture might have for handling their dead with a bit of care.

Superstition and fear, for example, are both great motivators for rites surrounding death.

Perhaps some orcs believe that some kinds of death (such as through misfortune or accident) are "catching", and laying the body to rest with some attention can avert future hardship. Perhaps when a leader or other especially fearsome orc is laid to rest, it is done with a ceremony "honoring" the fallen, lest his shade come back and make the rest of his clan suffer for failing in their respect.

Then of course there's selfishness. A funeral could be an opportunity to challenge others for rights to the deceased orc's property. Or to improve one's own standing through boasts tied to their association with the departed.

But in general, from an OOC perspective, a funeral is an occasion where things are happening, and it's probably good to encourage those, regardless.

[Onasaki]

I believe orcs are capable of honoring respected orcs who have died. Ancestors. And spirits.

This has always been a commonplace thing when it comes to Orcs, in general, from what I understand.

[MrDvAnt]

I understand that the old days can be alluring, but I'd hesitate to have orcs even have funerals. Caring that someone died and wanting to send their spirit on is assuming a nobility of spirit and personality. I don't think they'd care that one of their own had fallen. Maybe if a strong leader died, they'd be dismayed and a bit scared of their enemy, but they wouldn't feel the need to have a funeral to help them overcome the loss of a loved one like we do.

Whether or not orcs are capable of mourning their dead deeply the way humans do is a question I'll leave to players who have played orcs. I haven't yet. That said there are other potential motivations a culture might have for handling their dead with a bit of care.

Superstition and fear, for example, are both great motivators for rites surrounding death.

Perhaps some orcs believe that some kinds of death (such as through misfortune or accident) are "catching", and laying the body to rest with some attention can avert future hardship. Perhaps when a leader or other especially fearsome orc is laid to rest, it is done with a ceremony "honoring" the fallen, lest his shade come back and make the rest of his clan suffer for failing in their respect.

Then of course there's selfishness. A funeral could be an opportunity to challenge others for rights to the deceased orc's property. Or to improve one's own standing through boasts tied to their association with the departed.

But in general, from an OOC perspective, a funeral is an occasion where things are happening, and it's probably good to encourage those, regardless.

This what I'm fumblingly trying to get at. The motivation behind the celebration. Having a funeral to mourn a fallen orc, not so orcy. Funeral out of superstition/dread, chance to challenge for the fallen's positions, etc are all good motivations.

[MrDvAnt]

I believe orcs are capable of honoring respected orcs who have died. Ancestors. And spirits.

This has always been a commonplace thing when it comes to Orcs, in general, from what I understand.

Always? For the month we've been open?

[Oblivion]

Heh... Can of worms there... SoI has had many years worth of player created behavior for orcs. This is just the most recent incarnation.

Even the current incarnation is mostly tribal, with slaves being bought and brought in to supplement a single tribe in it's leader's goals. But we're seeing evidence of 'spiritual' practices, value of industrial members, honor of warriors. Maybe just not the typical ways we as humans are accustomed to.

It's kind of a mistake to believe that orcs don't have varying degrees of humanity, and what slant that might take in the society they are produced in.

[krelm]

I always saw any ritual an orc performed on the dead having little-to-nothing to do with the dead orc, but instead being done to please some spirit or whatever. No orc is an atheist, after all.

[Matt]

I always saw any ritual an orc performed on the dead having little-to-nothing to do with the dead orc, but instead being done to please some spirit or whatever. No orc is an atheist, after all.

Religious reasons about the actual dead orc definitely. Beyond that who cares throw it in a ditch.