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How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:09 am

I'm not even going to argue it because my experience over the last several years differs from the what's being said. Maybe because we're talking different points. Sure, IC'ly people will accept the occasional freak orc that's not the cookie-cutter type, but like I said, the dissent is always OOC. In the forums, people are very adamant about not wanting to accept Tolkien's established orcs, which is what my very first post said.

"Well sure, orcs spoke just like normal people in the books, but we don't like them that way. We're going to do it this way here."
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby Oblivion » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:22 am

Ever consider that... people -like- talking like that? And that that's why they do it? Not because they think they -have- to?

There's nobody stopping you what-so-ever of having an easily understood, and full thought statement making orc, except yourself and what you think others will say about it.

In the end, this isn't 'Tolkien's Established Works' ... It's a collaborative novel written minute by minute by dozens of different writers working off of the same general theme and world. There are bound to be differing opinions on writing style but it doesn't have to conflict in the slightest.

That's where I'm going to step off of that particular subject since I feel all that needs to have been said has been said. It's up to you what, if anything, you take away from it.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby krelm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:00 am

At this point I've played more articulate orcs than I have unreadable.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:28 am

Oblivion wrote:Ever consider that... people -like- talking like that? And that that's why they do it? Not because they think they -have- to?

There's nobody stopping you what-so-ever of having an easily understood, and full thought statement making orc, except yourself and what you think others will say about it.

In the end, this isn't 'Tolkien's Established Works' ... It's a collaborative novel written minute by minute by dozens of different writers working off of the same general theme and world. There are bound to be differing opinions on writing style but it doesn't have to conflict in the slightest.

That's where I'm going to step off of that particular subject since I feel all that needs to have been said has been said. It's up to you what, if anything, you take away from it.


Obviously it -has- crossed my mind, since I flat out said it in the post you were just responding to. Thank you for the thoughts. I'm not getting into another Tolkien/Anti-tolkien debate in this thread. There are a few others dedicated specifically to that. All I did was make an observation to begin, and it seems people are fairly defensive about something. I've always felt if you need to feel defensive over something, it means you know you shouldn't be doing it.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby WorkerDrone » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:12 pm

Not that I'm invalidating your point that people continually play certain types of characters over a long period of time, I'm still gonna say that's a cop-out to avoid the effort of stepping outside everyone's comfort zone. Usually when people do that, I feel taunted, like "yeah, well it's not like you'd understand/would bother trying yourself".

Well whatever. There's not batch of "Old Boys" presently around who'd laugh you out of the sphere, on the boards or even over AIM because you decided to not be like everyone else. Personally, I get tired of the humdrum in any game, and a well played character is better than an "appropriate" character in my mind.

You seem to be stuck under some illusory understanding that your opinions aren't welcome either, when we've all taken the time to respond to them in fairly reasonable and understanding ways, welcoming you to try your best. Perhaps that's one disheartening thing I'd like to stop seeing around here.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:13 pm

WorkerDrone wrote:Not that I'm invalidating your point that people continually play certain types of characters over a long period of time, I'm still gonna say that's a cop-out to avoid the effort of stepping outside everyone's comfort zone. Usually when people do that, I feel taunted, like "yeah, well it's not like you'd understand/would bother trying yourself".

Well whatever. There's not batch of "Old Boys" presently around who'd laugh you out of the sphere, on the boards or even over AIM because you decided to not be like everyone else. Personally, I get tired of the humdrum in any game, and a well played character is better than an "appropriate" character in my mind.

You seem to be stuck under some illusory understanding that your opinions aren't welcome either, when we've all taken the time to respond to them in fairly reasonable and understanding ways, welcoming you to try your best. Perhaps that's one disheartening thing I'd like to stop seeing around here.



I'm already playing one. So it's not a cop-out, just an observation. >.>
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:32 pm

Every time I or another orc says "Sha" I can't help but hear it like "Sha...right!" from Wayne's World. :(
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby radioactivejesus » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:43 pm

MrDvAnt wrote:Every time I or another orc says "Sha" I can't help but hear it like "Sha...right!" from Wayne's World. :(

there was a pc named Garth in the orc sphere. No joke
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:55 pm

radioactivejesus wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:Every time I or another orc says "Sha" I can't help but hear it like "Sha...right!" from Wayne's World. :(

there was a pc named Garth in the orc sphere. No joke



Lovely :p
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby Onasaki » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:21 am

Personally, I think it's based solely on how the orc was raised, how they experienced life prior to Vadok, and how stupid or not stupid they are.

Like humans, not all orcs are going to be smart, not all orcs are going to be able to articulate certain words because our version of common is a bastardization of Westron. The imms, despite, my many futile attempts at the contrary, have stated that our orcs don't speak Black-Speech.

So, because of this, I feel that it's appropriate to state that not every orc is going to be super articulate and easy to understand. It depends on how many teeth they have, what kind of life they've had, and various other tiny little details that are pretty much pointless to argue over.

Just because Tolkein's orcs are described as fairly smart, and articulate, doesn't mean they all are. Lowly snaga are going to be less smart and stuff, then someone who's had a better-the-most life.

So take it with a grain of salt. We're going to have smart orcs, we're going to have dumb orcs. It's just how it would be with people. You got smart people, and you got dumb people.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:24 am

Onasaki wrote:Personally, I think it's based solely on how the orc was raised, how they experienced life prior to Vadok, and how stupid or not stupid they are.

Like humans, not all orcs are going to be smart, not all orcs are going to be able to articulate certain words because our version of common is a bastardization of Westron. The imms, despite, my many futile attempts at the contrary, have stated that our orcs don't speak Black-Speech.

So, because of this, I feel that it's appropriate to state that not every orc is going to be super articulate and easy to understand. It depends on how many teeth they have, what kind of life they've had, and various other tiny little details that are pretty much pointless to argue over.

Just because Tolkein's orcs are described as fairly smart, and articulate, doesn't mean they all are. Lowly snaga are going to be less smart and stuff, then someone who's had a better-the-most life.

So take it with a grain of salt. We're going to have smart orcs, we're going to have dumb orcs. It's just how it would be with people. You got smart people, and you got dumb people.


Yes, but I can understand dumb people when they speak.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby EltanimRas » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:34 am

Does anybody happen to have a few Tolkien quotations with direct orc speech handy? I'm not saying anybody has to imitate them, but I'd be interested to read some.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby Onasaki » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:59 am

MrDvAnt wrote:
Onasaki wrote:Personally, I think it's based solely on how the orc was raised, how they experienced life prior to Vadok, and how stupid or not stupid they are.

Like humans, not all orcs are going to be smart, not all orcs are going to be able to articulate certain words because our version of common is a bastardization of Westron. The imms, despite, my many futile attempts at the contrary, have stated that our orcs don't speak Black-Speech.

So, because of this, I feel that it's appropriate to state that not every orc is going to be super articulate and easy to understand. It depends on how many teeth they have, what kind of life they've had, and various other tiny little details that are pretty much pointless to argue over.

Just because Tolkein's orcs are described as fairly smart, and articulate, doesn't mean they all are. Lowly snaga are going to be less smart and stuff, then someone who's had a better-the-most life.

So take it with a grain of salt. We're going to have smart orcs, we're going to have dumb orcs. It's just how it would be with people. You got smart people, and you got dumb people.


Yes, but I can understand dumb people when they speak.



I'm not even sure what you're referring too then, in terms of speech-patterns with orcs. I've never found it hard to understand anyone.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:41 am

Onasaki wrote:
MrDvAnt wrote:
Onasaki wrote:Personally, I think it's based solely on how the orc was raised, how they experienced life prior to Vadok, and how stupid or not stupid they are.

Like humans, not all orcs are going to be smart, not all orcs are going to be able to articulate certain words because our version of common is a bastardization of Westron. The imms, despite, my many futile attempts at the contrary, have stated that our orcs don't speak Black-Speech.

So, because of this, I feel that it's appropriate to state that not every orc is going to be super articulate and easy to understand. It depends on how many teeth they have, what kind of life they've had, and various other tiny little details that are pretty much pointless to argue over.

Just because Tolkein's orcs are described as fairly smart, and articulate, doesn't mean they all are. Lowly snaga are going to be less smart and stuff, then someone who's had a better-the-most life.

So take it with a grain of salt. We're going to have smart orcs, we're going to have dumb orcs. It's just how it would be with people. You got smart people, and you got dumb people.


Yes, but I can understand dumb people when they speak.



I'm not even sure what you're referring too then, in terms of speech-patterns with orcs. I've never found it hard to understand anyone.


Skai! 'M gon gut th' blee'in tark 'n li'en ta et squeal.

Admittedly, playing in the orc sphere currently, it's not nearly as bad in the past. Seems most people are actually pretty coherent now, which I'm enjoying.
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby MrDvAnt » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:47 am

EltanimRas wrote:Does anybody happen to have a few Tolkien quotations with direct orc speech handy? I'm not saying anybody has to imitate them, but I'd be interested to read some.


I don't have the book handy, but here's one..

"My dear tender little fools," hissed Grishnakh, "everything you have, and everything you know, will be got out of you in due time: everything! You'll wish there was more that you could tell to satisfy the Questioner, indeed you will: quite soon..."
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby tehkory » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:30 pm

Onasaki wrote:[O]ur version of common is a bastardization of Westron. The imms, despite, my many futile attempts at the contrary, have stated that our orcs don't speak Black-Speech.

No. While I can't quote either The Silmarillion, LotR, or the Appendices from my Kindle, I will later. The orcs are said to have no language of their own, yet this is in comparison to Elf, Man, and Dwarf. Elves and Men love and create language and text freely, taking joy in it. This is Goodness in Tolkien's works, where language itself was tied into creation. Dwarves likewise, as adopted Children of Iluvatar, create a language, though they guard it secretively.

Then there are orcs. They are corrupted, twisted imitations of the Children of Iluvatar, and Morgoth's corruption will ever remain in them. They do not love language,for they love nothing, and though they "have no language of their own," that does not mean they speak speak Black Speech, for that is a reference thousands of years prior to the creation of Black Speech, much less our setting.

Black Speech is a failure. Meant to express Sauron's dominance over all his armies and servants, it failed in his time and disappeared with his downfall and the beginning of the Third Age. While it sees a resurgance with his return, it is not the language an orc speaks. That is common, plus whatever pidgin tribal orcish they have. The only beings to speak Black Speech in our Rise of Sauron setting should be his Lieuteants and Captains, Uruk and Olog-Hai, and Nazgul.



Black Speech was created in the Second Age, and here is where
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Re: How do you imagine orcs in SoI?

Postby Hawkwind » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:02 pm

My most degenerate orc and most articulate human have exactly the same accent, I miss the occasional g from -ing suffixes. I find it is more the words you use rather than how you say them that conveys accent.
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