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Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

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Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby mongwen » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:01 pm

What you call poor quality is something that ought to just be remade until you get it right. It's a waste of materials as is for a couple reasons. You make things that won't sell for the cost of materials, and no self-respecting PC wants to deal in crap, which stuff called trash and poor quality, showing damage in construction and/or visibly ill-made self-evidently is.

Poor quality crafted items never should have been introduced because no one who cares about what they make will want to sell someone something they know to be pure junk. I can't speak for how orcish crafters would feel since I've never played one, but I imagine even they have their pride and must strive to refine their techniques for their own reasons. If so, they ought to be able to get above the crude and crappy themselves without looting, at least if they care to.

Right now on the human side we've got pure-junk-metal and junk-metal and the good stuff's crazy expensive imports. The pure-junk-metal's expensive enough, but that's getting off topic altogether so I'll stop here.
Edited to add more.
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby Icarus » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:27 pm

Respectfully, I disagree.

Poor quality is a name. It is a name that represents one step up from the very base level quality of items in this game. Ordinary quality represents a single step up from that. Good, a single step up from that.

Poor quality is still, technically, quite good against most everything.
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby Canawa » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:58 pm

I am from the Orc side, and poor quality makes sense all around. Ever wonder why your products at big box stores is cheaper? They are not made as well.

For example, I have worked in a swimming pool store for quite some time so I know a bit about this, Walmart Pool Shock is made of Calcium Hypochlorite because it is cheaper to make and they can offer it at a lower price. It is "poor quality" as to where professional swimming pool stores provide better shock such as Sodium Dichlor which is better but costs more. Thus, being "better quality".

Sure, it has nothing to do with middle-earth but I feel like it is an appropriate analogy. /shrug
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby Nezerin » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:03 pm

Poor should stay in my view. Yes, they are not desirable for someone to purchase, but just because people don't want them does not mean that they don't make sense from an IC point of view. People don't become smiths and start producing amazing swords and warhammers as soon as they pick up a black smith's hammer. They have to start with making small, junky items that not many people will want. As they get better they make better stuff, people want better stuff and eventually they're making the really really good stuff that people line up for.
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby ThinkTwice » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:02 am

I think trash quality equipment should be available from a npc vendor 24/7/365, and anything else (the good stuff) should be player made. If you want good stuff, go player made, and trash quality should reinforce that.
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby Fulgrim » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:02 am

...SIGH.

I think I've posted like two separate rants and I didn't truly like either one, but basically, BASICALLY, BASICALLY...

I just really want to point out you guys won't be getting your hands on Blood Drinker on a whim and an item order, okay?!
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby Songweaver » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:47 am

I'll second Icarus here. Don't get hung up on a name. The quality of everything in-game right now is relative.

The best armor that can be made at the moment is poor quality supple leather armor (excluding the metal helms that are there to give PCs more survivability against really nasty mobs hitting them in the head/eyes/neck). This armor matches up, in terms with balance, with oquality weapons.

The reason why the quality of weapons are higher than the quality of armor, in terms of balance, is simple: trash quality weapons are "practice weapons" that won't allow skillgain beyond a certain level and are necessarily weaker so that code sparring doesn't chop off peoples' arms on a regular basis.

Don't get hung up on the OOC meta names for qualities, and just know that quality is relative and balanced in the game now, and will continue to be with future releases.
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Re: Poor quality was a mistake and needs to go.

Postby EltanimRas » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:26 pm

mongwen wrote:You make things that won't sell for the cost of materials, and no self-respecting PC wants to deal in crap, which stuff called trash and poor quality, showing damage in construction and/or visibly ill-made self-evidently is.

I get the impression this is less about the ooc name of the craftset -- and less about the coded utility of the items produced -- than it is about specific item descriptions (and in some cases prices). If, for example, the starter overdress were craftable, I'd have to wonder why my PC didn't at least try to hem it properly:

Code: Select all
This sleeveless overdress is cut russet-brown coarse woolen fabric haphazardly woven with visible flaws and naps. Round-necked it hangs from the shoulders to the ankles, approximating the curvy shape of the female form. Undecorated and hastily made with an unfinished hem it is a cheap, serviceable garment, the mark of the poor and unfashionable.

More generally, it'd make sense to me if the opening craftset for most skills contained crafts for simple, plain items -- which might come out well-made or poorly-so, depending on the level of the skill check its maker was able to pass. Similarly, on the price side of things, most things worth less than the cost of materials probably ought to be some level of failure result. Who'd make them intentionally?

Higher-level craftsets wouldn't contain better-made items, just more complex and detailed ones (or possibly, in some cases, ones made from more challenging materials) -- for which you might have to pass a higher skill check to get even a poorly made version.
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