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Broken Crafts

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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Gobbo » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:16 pm

Cross posting from another crafts thread. Roast plain-meat is not available to pc's without cooking skill. There is no other method to cook hunks of raw meat without this craft. It would be nice if we could at least burn raw meat instead of eating it raw. I discussed roast plain-meat with a staff member and as far as he knows roast plain-meat isn't suppose to be something you start with even if it is a general-cooking craft.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Hawkwind » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:11 pm

Hazgarn wrote:
Hawkwind wrote:Not really broken, but can we get the smoke pipeweed craft extended to about five times its length? No sooner have you lit it, five minutes later it begins to grow dull.

Even after the lit pipe object goes out (is no longer "(lit)") it's still a "lit pipe", and all the progs still work.


That's true, but at five coppers a pinch it's pretty expensive for an entirely roleplayed item. Could we set it to have uses? Just to get more out?
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby EltanimRas » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:44 am

Gobbo wrote:Roast plain-meat is not available to pc's without cooking skill.

The recent change to this craft may also have made cooking crafts a lot harder to branch (unless you can branch them from general-cooking ones). Most other starter cooking crafts require somewhat less common ingredients and/or tools -- especially for wintertime cooking, when we have fewer veggies available.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby pinocchio » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:11 pm

roast plain-meat wrote:> roast plain-meat

You check the flames in a lit, river-rock hearth to make certain they are not too hot nor too low for a crude roasting spit.

You take the pointed end of a crude roasting spit and pierce 13 hunk of raw wolf meats with it to put the meat over the flames.

You give the meat some time to cook over the flames, keeping an eye on it as the juices drip into the fire, sparking and crackling.

You reach out to turn the meat by turning the rod upon a crude roasting spit.

You press a finger against the meat to check it and pull it off of a crude roasting spit, setting out a roasted chunk of organ.


Doesn't happen consistently, did happen once today.

Edit: Another random one today, boar changed to squirrel.
Last edited by pinocchio on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby pinocchio » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:27 pm

Also ...

General-cooking: slice roasted-gamebird
Phase 1: 0 seconds
Held (Reusable): a $metaltype0 utility knife, a sharp, $metaltype butcher knife, a fleshing knife, or a rough, bog-iron knife.

Consumes nothing, produces nothing, echoes nothing.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Inzannadee » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:59 am

Metal-armoring: make armoring-rings
Phase 1: 30 seconds
Phase 2: 120 seconds
Phase 3: 120 seconds
Phase 4: 60 seconds Beginner Metalcraft skill required.
In Room (Reusable): a spool of $metaltype wire.
In Room (Reusable): a broad workbench.
Held or in Room (Consumed): a spool of $metaltype wire.
Phase 5: 120 seconds
Phase 6: 120 seconds
Phase 7: 60 seconds Beginner Armorcraft skill required.
In Room (Reusable): a pile of $metaltype armoring rings.
OOC Delay Timer: 30 RL Minutes
OOC Failure Timer: 60 RL Minutes

Should be produced, I'm pretty sure.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Canawa » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:46 pm

The craft:
'make trash-shield'

This craft apparently has the same echo in phase 1 as it does in phase 3.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Inzannadee » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:38 am

Blacksmithing: forge metal-bands
Phase 1: 10 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a $metaltype blacksmith's hammer.
In Room (Reusable): a heavy iron anvil.
In Room (Reusable): a $metalforge0.
Held or in Room (Consumed): a bundle of firewood.
Phase 2: 30 seconds
Held (Reusable): a pair of $metaltype blacksmith's tongs.
Held or in Room (Partially Consumed): 5 of a round ingot of $metaltype0.
Phase 3: 20 seconds
Phase 4: 20 seconds Amateur Armorcraft skill required.
Failure: a hunk of ruined metal.
Phase 5: 20 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a broad workbench.
Produced: a set of thick $metaltype bands.
OOC Delay Timer: 60 RL Minutes

Shouldn't this skill check be metalcraft instead?
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Inzannadee » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:34 am

Metal-armoring: forge spangenhelm
Phase 1: 10 seconds
Phase 2: 30 seconds
Phase 3: 20 seconds Amateur Metalcraft skill required.
Failure: a hunk of ruined metal.
Phase 4: 20 seconds Familiar Armorcraft skill required.
Failure: a hunk of ruined metal.
Phase 5: 20 seconds
OOC Delay Timer: 960 RL Minutes

Looks like all the objects have gone missing.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby mongwen » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:42 am

two crafts.
forge spangenhelm doesn't look like it'll work as written. Had the same thing happen with the nails craft a while back, but it's been fixed.
Code: Select all
Metal-armoring: forge spangenhelm
Phase 1:  10 seconds
Phase 2:  30 seconds
Phase 3:  20 seconds Amateur Metalcraft skill required.
Failure: a hunk of ruined metal.
Phase 4:  20 seconds Familiar Armorcraft skill required.
Failure: a hunk of ruined metal.
Phase 5:  20 seconds
OOC Delay Timer: 960 RL Minutes

No objects required, no spangenhelm produced, and that timer's ridiculously long. There shouldn't be any timers longer than two hours for playability no matter how long the actual thing would take. Even the 240-minute timers are too long, but I'm not at a skill level where I'm making those items and haven't been able to test the crafts, which is supposed to be the point of this thread. I haven't tested this one either for similar reasons, but I looked at it and noticed it wouldn't work as it currently is. I did see requirements once, but they seem to have been lost. I don't know whether the craft was deliberately changed and didn't save properly or if something got messed up in some other way.

Digression alert, If you're going to have timers they should be measured in the space of game hours, not real hours. I find the 15 and 30 minute delay timers ridiculous because they're so short, but I can understand them. They represent that something takes an hour or a couple IC hours to make. Right now, though, you have 16 RL hours on this one, 64 IG hours. No one's going to stay in the forge without coming out of there for almost three solid days, and there are more IC ways to represent the time spent rather than extremely OOC timers that have people sitting around when they'd rather be crafting, whether there's RP to engage in or not.

Back on topic, the second broken craft is the make armoring-rings craft.
Code: Select all
Metal-armoring: make armoring-rings
Phase 1:  30 seconds
Phase 2:  120 seconds
Phase 3:  120 seconds
Phase 4:  60 seconds Beginner Metalcraft skill required.
In Room (Reusable): a spool of $metaltype wire.
In Room (Reusable): a broad workbench.
Held or in Room (Consumed): a spool of $metaltype wire.
Phase 5:  120 seconds
Phase 6:  120 seconds
Phase 7:  60 seconds Beginner Armorcraft skill required.
In Room (Reusable): a pile of $metaltype armoring rings.
OOC Delay Timer: 30 RL Minutes
OOC Failure Timer: 60 RL Minutes
>
make armoring-rings
You are missing one or more items:
In the room must be a pile of $metaltype armoring rings. 

This one's calling on the object it's supposed to make. I don't know if that's instead of the wire or in addition to it, but it doesn't run as written. I'm guessing that's a simple fix where someone accidentally set it to call the object instead of producing it.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Alcarin » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:20 pm

both Forge Spangenhelm and make armoring-rings have been fixed on the BP.

Changes will go live with the next PP reboot.

Delay timer on the spangenhelm is staying as is, unless a higher level staffer decides otherwise. Bear in mind that OOC timers are not representative ONLY of the amount of IC time spent making the object, but also a game balance factor for helping keep certain items rare and difficult both to produce and obtain.

In this case it is especially obvious simply because the entire process of making the item was captured in a single craft, rather than broken into multiple steps.

But, all metal armor will equal up to a minimum of 12 RL hours total time to produce. Some will be 24 RL hours or more, total time to produce.

Does this mean your character spent 4 IG days without food, drink, or rest slaving away mindlessly in the workshop? No. It does mean, however, that these items are difficult and time-consuming to create, and intended to be uncommon or rare rather than getting pumped out en masse whenever the materials are available
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Canawa » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm

So, looking over the 'construct wooden-bin':

Woodcrafting: construct wooden-bin
Phase 1: 15 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a broad workbench.
Held or in Room (Consumed): 4 of a $woodcolor plank of $woodtype wood.
Phase 2: 20 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a $metaltype crosscut saw.
Phase 3: 15 seconds Beginner Armorcraft skill required.
Phase 4: 20 seconds
Held (Reusable): a $metaltype0 carpenter's hammer.
Held or in Room (Consumed): 2 of a pile of $metaltype nails.
Held or in Room (Consumed): a $metaltype0 shield boss.
Phase 5: 15 seconds
OOC Delay Timer: 60 RL Minutes

Is this meant to be armorcraft? Or is it meant to be woodcraft?

Edited to add:

I think it also eats the shield boss at the end of the craft. Could be wrong as I couldn't get past the armorcraft part again, but it did it to me the first time.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Frigga » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:31 pm

As was noted previously - craft timers do not work the way they did in the past.

And, we'll have to agree to disagree on craft timers, Mongwen. We had amazingly low craft timers in the past on weapons and armor and that did not work. Sure, we could have 6 different stages to make the helmet, or an add-component type thing about banging on it with 50 different 15 minute timers rather than one long one, but the effect is the same - weapons and armor are specifically being designed not to produced en masse.

If you are the kind of person who wants to be able to pump out a lot of objects often, armorsmithing and weaponcrafting likely aren't the right professions for that. ;) That's definitely a quality over quantity sort of area.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Matt » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:15 am

So with the new set up of metal-armoring is there actually new armor to branch now?
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby pinocchio » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:23 am

render cooking-lard - First two echoes are third-person, even though the rest are second-person. He and his are also switched.

<sdesc> holds out he hand to check the temperature of a lit, river-rock hearth.

<sdesc> chops up 6 chunk of raw boar fats with a rough, bog-iron knife, cutting it into small, usuable chunks. his then places the raw fat at the bottom of a gallon-sized cooking pot and sets it near the heat of a lit, river-rock hearth.

You leave the fat to render and melt within a gallon-sized cooking pot, keeping a fair eye on it and stirring it with a long handled pine wooden spoon from time to time to ensure it doesn't burn.

You return to find a gallon-sized cooking pot floating with yellow melted fat. You strain some crispy, crumbled pork crackling (x3) from the pool and leave the lard to recongeal for a period of time.

You scoop the congealed lard into spoonfuls, setting aside 24 lump of smoky lards and finishing your work.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Matt » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:16 am

Alcarin wrote:both Forge Spangenhelm and make armoring-rings have been fixed on the BP.


Spangenhelms is back together but the ingots are set to consume an ingot instead of for uses. It used to be 6 of 12 out of an ingot. If it's been decided it should take a full ingot then it should still be set to consume 12, otherwise I can use my ingots with 1 use to make helms.

The armoring-rings craft is also set up to consume the whole spool of metal when the item is actually 5 uses. I also think the skill check requirements are quite low on metalcraft/armorcraft on this craft for how many supplies it uses. It makes it extremely easy to raise those skills.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Alcarin » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:50 pm

Matt wrote:
Alcarin wrote:both Forge Spangenhelm and make armoring-rings have been fixed on the BP.


Spangenhelms is back together but the ingots are set to consume an ingot instead of for uses. It used to be 6 of 12 out of an ingot. If it's been decided it should take a full ingot then it should still be set to consume 12, otherwise I can use my ingots with 1 use to make helms.

The armoring-rings craft is also set up to consume the whole spool of metal when the item is actually 5 uses. I also think the skill check requirements are quite low on metalcraft/armorcraft on this craft for how many supplies it uses. It makes it extremely easy to raise those skills.


Fixed and tweaked it all some more. Changes will be live with next PP reboot.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Matt » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:52 pm

Are there other metal-armoring crafts in that can be branched? Or is this just a craft prepping those like the hide-glue craft?
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Droll » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:10 am

m salt-bacon-barrel

Butchering: prepare salt-bacon-barrel



This kills the game.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Frigga » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:36 am

This is an unfortunate by-product of game crashes happening when I'm crafting - if you see a craft that has no objects, it is obviously broken - don't use it. ;)
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby ThinkTwice » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:49 am

I believe scout copse-for-tree is one of those crafts, currently. :)
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Matt » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:38 am

Metal-armoring: make armoring-rings
Phase 1: 30 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a spool of $metaltype wire.
In Room (Reusable): a broad workbench.
Phase 2: 120 seconds
Phase 3: 120 seconds
Phase 4: 60 seconds Beginner Metalcraft skill required.
Held or in Room (Partially Consumed): 5 of a spool of $metaltype wire.
Phase 5: 120 seconds
Phase 6: 120 seconds
Phase 7: 60 seconds Beginner Armorcraft skill required.
Produced: a pile of $metaltype armoring rings.
OOC Delay Timer: 30 RL Minutes
OOC Failure Timer: 60 RL Minutes

This craft has 10:30 in phase timers and a 30 minute OOC delay. By the time I make three of them I've burned off enough time to make another.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Alcarin » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:56 pm

Matt wrote:Metal-armoring: make armoring-rings
Phase 1: 30 seconds
In Room (Reusable): a spool of $metaltype wire.
In Room (Reusable): a broad workbench.
Phase 2: 120 seconds
Phase 3: 120 seconds
Phase 4: 60 seconds Beginner Metalcraft skill required.
Held or in Room (Partially Consumed): 5 of a spool of $metaltype wire.
Phase 5: 120 seconds
Phase 6: 120 seconds
Phase 7: 60 seconds Beginner Armorcraft skill required.
Produced: a pile of $metaltype armoring rings.
OOC Delay Timer: 30 RL Minutes
OOC Failure Timer: 60 RL Minutes

This craft has 10:30 in phase timers and a 30 minute OOC delay. By the time I make three of them I've burned off enough time to make another.

Actually, you'd have to make four to burn 30 minutes after the first delay timer.

If you want to spend 40 minutes making rings and then do a fifth, go right ahead. We discussed the time and delays on these crafts last night and decided they are fine as-is.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Matt » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:23 pm

So you'd rather have people standing in a room solo for 10 minutes at a time per craft instead of like... out talking to people and doing things proactive? Having to stand in a room for a hour and half to make a pair of gloves is incredibly frustrating. I know you want it 'to take time and be tedious' to get in metal armor. But it shouldn't take a lot of time and be tedious for me as a player. I don't want to have to take an 8 hour work day to make a set of maille.
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Re: Broken Crafts

Postby Matt » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:22 pm

Adding on some math.

To make a mail Hauberk it's 126 minutes of RL time to equal 18 hours of craft timers.

If I spent my entire 24 hours of craft timers just making rings? It'd be 8 RL hours for my 24 hours of craft timers.

That's pretty insane, like very very insane.

I could understand high timers for the assembling of the actual armor piece. But making the actual hauberk is less phase timers then making armoring-rings. For a beginner level craft with a 30 minute delay timer it really makes no sense. I just don't want my second job to be logging into SOI to make armoring rings.
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