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Re: RPP Policy

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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Rivean » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:13 am

I thoroughly approve of the work done on this. I am concerned about how sustainable a monthly review will prove to be in practice though, particularly should the game grow to the point where we have more than a couple hundred active players (which is not entirely inconceivable - I don't think we're that far away, even if our peaks seem to be 25 - 30 presently).

On the other hand, I am concerned that the RPP policy page seems to be an ode to THINK COMMAND fetishists. I think it's been well established that different frequencies and uses for the THINK command are a matter of playstyle and that different people use it differently (or even not at all). Also, that it is perfectly possible to play realistic, well-rounded, compelling characters without the use of the THINK command.

I'm sure that usage of this command makes it easier for staff to find and be made aware of interesting RP, but I don't think, 'easier to find good RP' and 'good RP' are the same things :P

Also, on a similar note, omote, pmote, dmote, etc. have always been useful commands to have, but they've always been optional additions and not mandatory guides to Good Roleplay - which essentially is about character development, subtlety, themes, ideas, interactions, etc. Are we redefining roleplay to the simple usage of as many commands and emote syntaxes as possible now?

Suggestion: An awareness of commands and syntax ought to be one of the ways in which you can show that you're familiar with how the game works and therefore can help you earn your first (or second, considering the first is more or less a freebie) RPP but is not absolutely necessary, so long as you can ably demonstrate the other roleplay based requirements (ie. if your emotes and says adequately convey the qualities we're looking for).
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Matt » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:23 am

I can personally vouch that they don't discriminate against people that don't think a lot.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Rivean » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:31 am

Matt wrote:I can personally vouch that they don't discriminate against people that don't think a lot.


a) That's great.

b) The officially published policy should reflect this.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Fulgrim » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:21 am

re:A) I agree, people who don't think a whole lot shouldn't be discriminated against. The policy appears to project the view that we would be doing that, but we've made it clear already we haven't. I suppose it should be changed.

We as a staff (or at least the RPAs I've had words with on the topic) feel that RPP is a bit of an outdated system with a certain preconceived, negative stigma attached to it. I wouldn't worry too much on reorganizing the system from a player's standpoint, because we on staff all have ideas on how to reorganize the effort in a fair and efficient way. None-the-less feel free to do so, it's just not as high a priority because we have so few roles and races at the moment.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby ThinkTwice » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:39 am

I understand I'm somewhat the minority, but I don't feel like it's unreasonable for the staff to ask for well-documented, consistent roleplay from a character. They're not saying it's mandatory for you to play the game, they're saying it's mandatory for them to give you with awesome things. If you aren't going to think and feel, then journal, plan, status, your heart out. These would be my thoughts, were I an RPA. :P

I LOVE people who omote, dmote, and pmote, and think it should absolutely be, if not a requirement, then certainly a consideration for RPP. Doing so doesn't have anything to do with you, really, but it makes the game a much better environment for the rest of us. The higher RPP requirements aren't so much focused on yourself as they are about improving the game for everyone else, and these commands do that.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Fulgrim » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:44 am

Sure, use these commands. They're useful, but they're also RP aides. They help you roleplay, get into character, develop in a way, track progression, and help others (including staff) do that too.

I'll just say that there are other measures as to whether you're up to the task of roleplaying that elite badass Elf (which will be my catchall phrase/term for "that role/race" from here on out). Not all of you are. That's not to say you will never be.

Some races will be closed to you because you haven't demonstrated that you have the ability to roleplay them and enhance everyone else's experience and their immersion. You don't need to play an elf to have fun, but playing an elf is a thing you should be doing if you're capable of helping everyone else have fun. That includes things like leadership roles, and other races that require a certain degree of trust and competence to put to the grid.

I'd like to help most of you progress to the point of being able to play things like that...but it won't be easy.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Hawkwind » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:35 pm

ThinkTwice wrote:I understand I'm somewhat the minority, but I don't feel like it's unreasonable for the staff to ask for well-documented, consistent roleplay from a character. They're not saying it's mandatory for you to play the game, they're saying it's mandatory for them to give you with awesome things. If you aren't going to think and feel, then journal, plan, status, your heart out. These would be my thoughts, were I an RPA. :P

I LOVE people who omote, dmote, and pmote, and think it should absolutely be, if not a requirement, then certainly a consideration for RPP. Doing so doesn't have anything to do with you, really, but it makes the game a much better environment for the rest of us. The higher RPP requirements aren't so much focused on yourself as they are about improving the game for everyone else, and these commands do that.


I would agree with what TT has written here, along with the fact that some of the people arguing this are some of the most established personas in the community that have a track record of receiving admin attention. What you are saying is that despite me not giving you the signals that my rp is good (Using the think command) I still want you to take time from others and come watch me.

New players do not have this luxury, they must use the thinks to draw admin to them, other than the random chance factor which grows smaller every time a character is created they have a reduced chance of getting that all important foot on the RPP ladder.

Having said that, emote, dmote and such important as they give a lot more to the game atmosphere.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Rivean » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:01 am

Hawkwind wrote:I would agree with what TT has written here, along with the fact that some of the people arguing this are some of the most established personas in the community that have a track record of receiving admin attention.


Man, you and me are old fogies now, Hawkwind. Our days of rockstardom are long behind us. You vastly overestimate my street cred in this community.

Hawkwind wrote:What you are saying is that despite me not giving you the signals that my rp is good (Using the think command) I still want you to take time from others and come watch me.


Actually, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of getting fewer RPP because I don't think as much and admins therefore don't get reason to look at me as much. I'm also perfectly happy with getting fewer RPP because I play off-peak and there aren't as many admins around to watch me. I'm not perfectly fine with being told that my RP is subpar because I focus more on emotes and says than think.

Anyway, it's a moot point, since Fulgrim's clarification suggests that that's not the staff position. It is important though, to have that official position reflected in the official documentation.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Taurgalas » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:16 am

Thinks and feels are absolutely not requirements, not part of some you are awesome tic sheet. What they are is a bonus and added insight that makes an RPA'S job of interacting with you easier. It is NOT an excuse for an RPA to avoid interaction with any player because "X thinks more so they should get all my attention." Or to restrict and pass judgment on quality. How someone reacts to another PC or to an NPC or to an echo is the true heart of quality and what we want this game to embrace.
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby EltanimRas » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:33 am

Rivean wrote:Anyway, it's a moot point, since Fulgrim's clarification suggests that that's not the staff position. It is important though, to have that official position reflected in the official documentation.


Hmm, this thread reminds me of another one ... something about Ongull Adasson, maybe?

Frigga wrote:If you'd like to offer an edited version [...], Rivean, I'll happily read it. That is exponentially more helpful.

;)
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Songweaver » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:20 am

Personally, I like the requirements as is. They don't say you need to focus on thinks/feels over emotes. They just explain what level of depth they expect those thinks/feels to be. They also refer to writing, characterization, emotes/omotes/etc.

Do I think you should need to think all the time to be considered for RPP? Not at all.

Do I think you should need to think/feel sometimes to be considered for RPP? Yep. I don't think it's unreasonable.

I don't have any problems with the requirements posted. They are, at least, not vague and left entirely up to subjective judgements that will vary from admin to admin (a big problem on old SOI).
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Re: RPP Policy

Postby Alcarin » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:23 pm

A quick comment on this thread, also: We are planning to discuss this and related items in our next staff meeting. Hopefully there'll be clarification of some kind soon.
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