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First aid, medicine, and healing

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First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby EltanimRas » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:30 pm

The character skills guide wrote:FIRST-AID
A measure of one's ability to apply quick ministrations to basic wounds or ailments.

MEDICINE **Requires First-Aid**
An elaborate knowledge of medicines and healing in order to mend and prevent both basic and complex ailments.


krelm wrote:Basically, medicine serves as a minimum roll for your first-aid check, and education serves as a minimum for your medicine.

Also, back in Atonement, it was medicine that determined how well you extracted bullets from someone, so maybe it's still used in removing arrows?


The first-aid crafts wrote:brew chamomile-tea
brew lavender-tea
brew rose-tea
bundle moss-bandage
prepare bandages-from-cloth
prepare septfoil-poultice
prepare wolfsbane-poultice
refresh dried-poultice
sterilize bandages
sterilize mass-bandages


The medicine crafts wrote:brew strawberry-leaf-tea
grind holly-powder
prepare birch-bark-cast
prepare garlic-salve
prepare septfoil-salve
prepare silverweed-ointment
prepare silverweed-salve
prepare simple-aid-kit
prepare wolfsbane-ointment
prepare wolfsbane-salve


The general-cooking crafts wrote:brew dried-chamomile-tea
brew mint-tea


Taurgalas wrote:[salves] can't be stored, sold, or made portable [...] Ointment crafts will be medicine, but made for portability (less effective, though.) First aid crafts (predominantly poultices, splints, etc.) will be perfectly portable and potentially ad hoc, but even less effective than the medicinal crafts.


Long story short, I don't understand how healing works in this game. Long story long ...

1. Does education affect one's success rate with the 'treat' command? Is it helpful even if it's lower than your medicine or first-aid skill? For that matter, can education even be increased in-game?

2. Do hunger and thirst have an effect? If so, at what level does it begin?

3. What about wound severity? Is it easier to succeed at treating a 'moderate' wound than a 'grievous' one? Are there wound severities that people with only the first-aid skill simply cannot treat? If so, what message do they get when they try?

4. What's up with tea? Is it just an RP prop? If so, why not put it all in general-cooking? Are some kinds really that much more difficult to brew than others?

5. Do remedy objects care what kind of injury you're treating, or are those kinds of distinctions RP-only?

6. Is there any coded way to compare two remedy objects in-game, or are we supposed to base our knowledge of their relative efficacy on Taurgalas's forum posts? If the latter, where do kits fit into the proposed scale?

7. What's the IC difference between a salve and an ointment? In my OOC dictionary, the words are synonyms.

8. On what basis are we meant to compare and choose between different herbs IC? Based on some coded difference, as evidenced by ...? Based on OOC research into traditional beliefs and uses? On OOC research into modern, scientifically validated beliefs and uses? On secret healer-only helpfiles?

9. Do the medicine and/or first-aid skills affect the results of either the 'bind' or the 'remove' commands?

10. Can you open the first-aid skill in-game through sufficient use of 'bind' or any other activity? What about medicine?

11. Are there any plans to bring back the old npc-in-need-of-healing objects and their associated crafts?

12. Is there any way players can predict the time until a 'treated' or 'tended' wound flag clears? I've been told it's variable.

13. Do tags like 'infected' and 'fractured' ever clear spontaneously, or do they always require a healer's intervention?

14. Is there any difference between online and offline healing rates? How do offline characters fit into the standing/resting/sleeping scheme of things?

15. Does being in a designated infirmary have any effect on 'treat' attempts?

16. What's the syntax for using an NPC healer? Is it possible for PC healers to get treatment from an NPC, or do the two uses of the 'treat' command conflict?

17. What's the typical skill level of an NPC healer?

18. On that note, at approximately what skill level does it cease to be incredibly risky for a PC healer to use the 'treat' command on others?
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Re: First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby Nimrod » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:47 pm

I've noted the trend that characters avoid a PC healer to instead use an npc healer. I've not dug into this much, but is this because the PC Healer can actually do harm or what?
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Re: First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby Onasaki » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:50 pm

I would honestly, suggest removing NPC healers. (At least for Human-Side, orc-side has reason to have a NPC healer. Plus he's an integral part of the lore.)

No one ever makes healers because of NPC healers having 100% heal rate.

The only up-side to PC healers, is the ability to treat wounds while out and about on patrols.
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Re: First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby radioactivejesus » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:02 pm

Nimrod wrote:I've noted the trend that characters avoid a PC healer to instead use an npc healer. I've not dug into this much, but is this because the PC Healer can actually do harm or what?

yep. Newbie healers can potentially cause infections in wounds they try to treat
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Re: First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby Nimrod » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:46 pm

I'll answer what I can.

EltanimRas wrote:1. Does education affect one's success rate with the 'treat' command? Is it helpful even if it's lower than your medicine or first-aid skill? For that matter, can education even be increased in-game?
Yes it helps. I'm not going to get into the details. Sorry. Yes, you can increase education. It's possible that this skill is not tested a lot in-game right now so it may be kind of hard.

Eltanimras wrote:2. Do hunger and thirst have an effect? If so, at what level does it begin?
No.

Eltanimras wrote:3. What about wound severity? Is it easier to succeed at treating a 'moderate' wound than a 'grievous' one? Are there wound severities that people with only the first-aid skill simply cannot treat? If so, what message do they get when they try?
The worse the wound the harder it is to treat, yes. I don't believe there is a cut off of wounds that can be treated by medicine but not first aid.

Eltanimras wrote:4. What's up with tea? Is it just an RP prop? If so, why not put it all in general-cooking? Are some kinds really that much more difficult to brew than others?
I believe the intent is to eventually have these teas perform some type of healing, but as far as I know right now, they are indeed a prop.

Eltanimras wrote:5. Do remedy objects care what kind of injury you're treating, or are those kinds of distinctions RP-only?
I do not know the answer to this question.

Eltanimras wrote:6. Is there any coded way to compare two remedy objects in-game, or are we supposed to base our knowledge of their relative efficacy on Taurgalas's forum posts? If the latter, where do kits fit into the proposed scale?
I do not know this.

Eltanimras wrote:7. What's the IC difference between a salve and an ointment? In my OOC dictionary, the words are synonyms.
I don't believe there is a difference.

Eltanimras wrote:8. On what basis are we meant to compare and choose between different herbs IC? Based on some coded difference, as evidenced by ...? Based on OOC research into traditional beliefs and uses? On OOC research into modern, scientifically validated beliefs and uses? On secret healer-only helpfiles?
It's my intent to have this eventually be all in-game knowledge through writings, board posts and word of mouth. I don't plan on just handing this information out in an ooc manner, though staff will provide some details in-game. (This is Alpha, so this particular knowledge-set is fairly low on our list of priorities at the moment.)

Eltanimras wrote:9. Do the medicine and/or first-aid skills affect the results of either the 'bind' or the 'remove' commands?
Bind is affected by both first-aid and medicine. Remove does check against medicine. Of course anyone can yank an arrow out, but someone skilled in medicine may be able to do so much more efficiently and avoid further injury, though not always.

Eltanimras wrote:10. Can you open the first-aid skill in-game through sufficient use of 'bind' or any other activity? What about medicine?
Yes, and yes.

Eltanimras wrote:11. Are there any plans to bring back the old npc-in-need-of-healing objects and their associated crafts?
Absolutely. Once we have the Citadel in place we'll begin work on these. Healers will no longer play a passive role in the war. Their crafting will allow them to contribute a lot to the effort on a daily basis.

Eltanimras wrote:12. Is there any way players can predict the time until a 'treated' or 'tended' wound flag clears? I've been told it's variable.
It is variable and no, there's no way for a character to accurately predict when the coded effects of the wound will heal. We've always encouraged players to roleplay their wounds in a more realistic fashion if the situation calls for it. The fact that a character can be near death one day and back to full health the next is something that we overlook for playability. I have no plans to discourage people from going on patrol if they're at full health and were beaten down the day before. What fun is that? I will, however, support those people that wish to allow their wounds to impact their play for a few days, and so should everyone else.

Eltanimras wrote:13. Do tags like 'infected' and 'fractured' ever clear spontaneously, or do they always require a healer's intervention?
Fractured wounds will always need to be treated before they heal. I believe an infected wound will eventually clear itself, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Eltanimras wrote:14. Is there any difference between online and offline healing rates? How do offline characters fit into the standing/resting/sleeping scheme of things?
When offline, a character will heal at nearly the same rate he was when last online. If he was sleeping when he logged off, he will be sleeping when offline. The wounds don't actually heal while offline, instead, when a player logs back in the system checks to see how much time has passed and applies the changes at that time.

Eltanimras wrote:15. Does being in a designated infirmary have any effect on 'treat' attempts?
Not at this time.

Eltanimras wrote:16. What's the syntax for using an NPC healer? Is it possible for PC healers to get treatment from an NPC, or do the two uses of the 'treat' command conflict?
A PC healer should be able to get treated. The syntax is 'treat all', I believe there are some helpfiles that address the syntax further.

Eltanimras wrote:17. What's the typical skill level of an NPC healer?
Right now it's way too high. I'm not going to give numbers, but in time they will be nerfed and we will also re-institute the charges for healing as well.

Eltanimras wrote:18. On that note, at approximately what skill level does it cease to be incredibly risky for a PC healer to use the 'treat' command on others?
This is something that will have to be determined in-game. I've noticed the trend of players to avoid healer pcs and instead rely on the npcs, which is a pity. Yes, there are coded benefits to using the npc, but it's a shame more people won't let the healer pc practice their craft. I hope to encourage this in the future by lowering npc skill levels and costs.
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Re: First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby EltanimRas » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:56 pm

Help treat wrote:The treat command is also used to get NPC healers to treat wounds. Using the syntax "treat value" will cause the NPC to tell you how much the treatment will cost. Entering an area of the body will give the price for just that area, while "treat value all" gives the price for a full treatment of the entire body.


Code: Select all
A stooped and wrinkled, grey-haired woman resides here.

> treat value all
You don't see them here.


The helpfile doesn't include the "treat all" syntax, so I didn't test it.

Nimrod wrote:It is variable and no, there's no way for a character to accurately predict when the coded effects of the wound will heal.

Not the coded effects of the wound, the coded effects of the treatment. I've seen a number of people (healers and injured) awkwardly hanging around, waiting to see if they can or should get another "treat" command in before they log off. It makes for weird RP.

I've noted the trend that characters avoid a PC healer to instead use an npc healer. I've not dug into this much, but is this because the PC Healer can actually do harm or what?

I've rolled a few PC healers (with both first-aid and medicine). The highest I remember getting one was Familiar/Talented, and using the treat command on other PCs was still a miserable experience. Even if people came to me, I would probably have my PC refuse them -- because (a) IC, in-game experience told her she should and (b) treating people wasn't fun, OOCly.

It was even less fun when the player of the other character could tell it was your PC's skill roll to blame ... and emoted her incompetence for you:

> em as ~healerpc rips roughly at his injury, @ cries out in pain.

:?

Anyway, last I checked there were a ton of people playing healers, so my experience can't be all that representative.

Thanks for the insights.
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Re: First aid, medicine, and healing

Postby Nimrod » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:03 pm

EltanimRas wrote:
Nimrod wrote:It is variable and no, there's no way for a character to accurately predict when the coded effects of the wound will heal.

Not the coded effects of the wound, the coded effects of the treatment. I've seen a number of people (healers and injured) awkwardly hanging around, waiting to see if they can or should get another "treat" command in before they log off. It makes for weird RP.

We're always going to have some min/maxers that try to pinpoint the exact time they have to wait before they can get another treatment in order to minimize down time. I'm pretty sure this is variable as well, so I don't have a good answer for you.

I also don't have a good answer for you on how to deal with the lingerers who want another treatment, other than being gruff with them and telling them to come back tomorrow and you'll have a look.
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