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Embarrassing

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Re: Embarrassing

Postby cfelch » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:11 am

Did anyone bother to break immersion and OOCsay to explain?
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:16 am

I thought that the orc in Shadow of Mordor, the new game that came out recently, the one that's part of the main quest line, was an excellent example of orc-shaped behaviour. He was an abject coward ready to turn sides at the drop of a hat, but also ready to back stab if he thought he could get away with it. The moment anyone of any real power was around he was a sycophantic wretch though.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Siradril » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:35 am

For bjg2k1us:
I did not have a good grasp of the Orc Sphere beforehand, nor their roleplay. As I said it was my first Orc ever. And I didn't even have a character in the Evil sphere before either. Not even in Fahad Jhafari or whats its name was. Always been on Human side, mostly in the Eastern Vanguard.

The bit about characters that keep talking shit even though they are weak. I can see how it can be annoying. But think of this:

We have Jamie and George. George is Corporal and Jamie is a private. (As in George has superiority in rank and thus authorithy) An incident occurs where Jamie is hurt already after battling a different character and George seems to attack already hurt Jamie saying he will give this medic Jamie some practice. Which annoys Jamie and he talks shit back to George even after being beaten down. However George knows pretty well that Jamie follows orders. He even tells Jamie he will cut Jamie's ear off and orders Jamie to approach him. Despite his better judgement out of his loyalty to the Warband, he approaches and lets his ear be cut off.

Now we have a person who FOLLOWS orders and thus already submitting, being targetted over and over and over and over and over again.

Anyhow the example was to give you an idea of the taste I had myself. Make no mistake the insulting only starts after he is insulted. So it is quite unfair to say it is annoying to see Orc weaklings talk shit when they are talked shit at. Yes it is stupid to roll an orc with the personality I had. However it doesn't change the fact that this character already submits to you, so beating him up further does NOTHING and I mean NOTHING at all to add to it. It is an entirely different course of action taken to please yourself. To which I have no respect for OOCly.

Finally the bit about constantly talking even though you know it will lead to an agonizing path for you. There are people around in actual life that you'd beat down in a fist fight and still keep talking. This is quite understandable right? You know there are too. Then why should there not be any Orcs doing the same thing? Some people are too proud or arrogant for their own good. And this is a roleplaying game, we don't necessarily have to roll a character with personalities that'd best stick to their environment. (I apparently did that by rolling an arrogant, proud Orc and got the horrid results of it.)
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby bjg2k1us » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:13 am

I wasn't referring to you specifically. In your example, the guy who gets his ear cut off shapes up. I'm referring more to PCs of days past who'd get an ear cut off, their eyes gouged out, both legs broken, arms amputated, and tongue removed, and STILL find a way to be 'unbroken and cocky'. Every time. And then they'd complain to staff if they got thrown in a jail cell for a week.

And there certainly are people who can and will talk themselves to death, but in SOI a) we get in trouble for killing them despite their insistence, and b) there are just too many of them. Sure, there are people like that, but how many? How many that would do it after they saw someone ELSE get gutted for mouthing off? But I promise you anyone who's led an 'open' clan on this game for any period of time has had to deal with at least one.

The point about orcs having cowardice was also not directed at you, but at the documentation and expectations of the sphere in general. I've only had an extremely brief experience with it myself, so I can't say, but it sounds like there are simply too many orcs who aren't afraid of their superiors (or their superior's superiors, or THEIR Necromancerly superiors) enough to even consider 'hm, is it really worth being flayed alive to mouth off again?' And against a steady influx of such rebellious and fearless snagas, the established orcs are getting a bit trigger happy.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Songweaver » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:30 am

I don't think that it's believable that someone (even an orc) that has been beaten within an inch of his life five times in ten or so IG days, and has multiple fractured bones and serious injuries, would continue to spat back or even try to keep fighting. Orcs have a certain amount of preservation instinct. There's believable pride, but it does sound like this situation crossed over what I'd consider to be the line of realistic portrayal.

That's not to say that PCs might not have been too harsh on yours. As I suggested earlier in the thread, making it clear to new orc players what to expect as they go through chargen, and creating some sort of system where PCs can judge actions and deal with these situations -- those seem like good approaches towards dealing with issues like this. OOC threats do not. Perhaps what happened didn't inspire the greatest roleplay ever (I don't know, I wasn't there), and perhaps it's not as newbie friendly as it could have been, but it does sound believable based on everything that I've read.

Frigga wrote:And in short, that's the concern.

People want us to start advertising and reaching out to new players, but the rather blasé attitude about retaining them is a bit of a concern. Advertising can get people here, but the community will determine if stay or go.

Orc RP has always been more harsh than human RP, but there seemed to be in the past more desire to not take that harshness immediately to code. Conflict =/= code.

And ultimately, it's difficult for other players let alone staff to determine the motivation behind someone's actions, but deciding why newbies act like ... newbies brings no resolve.

Playing an Orc was always a 0 RPP new player option, but with heavy suggestions about warnings and not being for new players, it feels like this is no longer desired.

Is it?


I'll be honest here, in three brief points. None of this criticism is meant to be offensive to anyone, and fully comes from my belief that SOI can grow and become better, and my desire for it to be as successful as it can be.

1) I love the orc players; that's my preface. However, I honestly don't think that the pbase is currently large enough to properly support two spheres. I say that with all of the love that I can muster for the orc sphere; it just doesn't seem like a good time to have a two opposing sphere setup. I do think that there would be more energy within the playerbase overall if RPAs handled Vadok Mal/antagonism, and all of the players were in Utterby, consolidated. In my experience, the two-sphere setup demands a much larger pbase than what SOI currently has to really gel and work. When it's too small, people stop playing entirely, and you bleed players. This was most evidently a problem on old SOI in the Haradrim sphere, FJ. If a new player (or even an old regular) comes to an empty sphere and can't find any players, they aren't coming back.

2) Orcs should absolutely be a 0RPP option, so long as they are playable. They are relatively easy to play, comparatively. The responsibility is the staff's, to properly introduce people who are applying through the web-app to what they can expect from the different spheres. While the web app is nice, it does very little to clearly define expectations for new players, and I do think that this is a problem. If folks know what the orc sphere is like, then their expectations will change, and they won't feel slighted when it turns out to be different than what they had assumed it would be.

3) The most popular RPIs have never been about holding hands and protecting newbies from demise. There's a learning curve, and that learning curve (and the prevalent danger in the gameworld) was appreciated in old SOI (some spheres more than others), and particularly in Armageddon and Atonement. I think that hand-holding actually undermines SOI's ability to build a playerbase, because a lot of players that prefer a permanent death game do so because they want realistic and consistent danger. SOI is not currently considered to be a very challenging/dangerous game.

The answer is not to shy away from in-game conflict and make everyone work together as friends. It's not, it's not, it's not.

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Re: Embarrassing

Postby tehkory » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:59 am

This thread in a nutshell: Image


Sirahil: it honestly never helps threads like these when someone decides to take a generalization personal, as you are. But since you have...the biggest problem I find with the trope you're playing(besides the fact that a player that plays that trope almost always plays it again) is that it's one that is never given character growth. Players who play the 'always mouths off guy' end up with a character who is ALWAYS the 'always mouths off guy.' It doesn't matter what sphere it is, but I can't think of an 'always mouths off guy' who ever changed or deviated from that iron-clad rule. When that happens, you're no longer playing a character, you're playing a joke. On a game like SoI, stuff like that gets despised pretty quickly. It's not original, it's not rare, and it's not fun for anyone.

I like playing people who pick fights as much as the next guy. But I also like making sure that I(as a player) acknowledge--whether it's a battle of wits, reflexes, strength, or will--when my character has lost. And the 'always mouths off guy' is never going to do that. If that's your concept, you've got a lot of convincing to do to make most people believe that such a concept is actually a character/person instead of a joke/trope/stereotype.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby cfelch » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:16 am

I don't see why an orc would be loyal in the first place.
They are greedy and self-serving, as such they would attempt to abandon the army if at all possible.
As such there would need to be those standing sentry against the inside moreso than the out.
They only reason these sentries stay is their gluttony for abusive power against said abandoning/misbehaving troops.
Fear of punishment and the hope of someday attaining similar power would be the driving forces.
Punishing those outside your duty should be punishable, and make more things punishable until the grunt breaks.
Infighting is expected, but know your place and how far you can go.

Tolkien was a religious man right?
Taking it old school...
"And a man who inflicts an injury upon his fellow man just as he did, so shall be done to him [namely,] fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Just as he inflicted an injury upon a person, so shall it be inflicted upon him." (Lev. 24:19–21)
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby mongwen » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:23 am

Brian wrote:First, is Siradil's experience standard for what a newbie orc should expect?

No, it's not normal at all. From the one time I was in the same area as this PC, it was insults and curses all the way for the one he was arguing with even after he'd lost again and when he went out of character to express his frustration, I suggested he dial back the attitude and he'd be OK. I was only around for one incident and by then things had already escalated quite a bit to the point he was angry OOC. I made a point of RPing with him when I had the chance. I don't get in on a fight unless I'm very sure what's going on, OOC or IC.

His experience is almost unique in my ...hmm... seven or so months as playing an orc. I had never done so either before creating this PC and did it just to try a new experience. Generally, if you tamp the arrogance down and gain some respect first, you do OK. If you prove yourself as a fighter, as a crafter, or both, you will gain respect. There's one in the band who is known for bouts of insubordination and isn't very popular, but manages to keep himself conscious and out of the pit most of the time. I don't go In for cruelty or arrogance; personality wise perhaps I'm not a very good orc even ICly, but I've managed to keep myself from being considered weak, disrespected or getting beaten down . Even in a sphere where harshness is expected, it's entirely possible to make your way with the right comportment, and no, it doesn't mean you have to constantly snivel and grovel. You can play an orc with no RPP if you're careful. I'm still not sure I have a single RPP, honestly. Haven't looked lately.

In short, while this fellow shouldn't have been beaten again and again and again and the typists should have restrained themselves, he could have avoided even the excuse for it if he'd changed his portrayal a bit. He knew he had low con and broken bones. Generally people who're feeling bad are too busy trying to heal up to be arrogant and provoke others. Which reminds me of something I need to add in a suggestions thread somewhere for code....
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Siradril » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:36 am

tehkory wrote:Sirahil: it honestly never helps threads like these when someone decides to take a generalization personal, as you are. But since you have...the biggest problem I find with the trope you're playing(besides the fact that a player that plays that trope almost always plays it again) is that it's one that is never given character growth. Players who play the 'always mouths off guy' end up with a character who is ALWAYS the 'always mouths off guy.'

My account name is Siradril, I hope you did not read this post just like the way you have read my account name. Because while you are targetting me personally I can assure you, I did not roll another orc with similar personality. Mostly because of the bad taste it left, nor do I plan to do so for a good while if I can help it. Should I change my mind? I'll make sure not to attempt to roleplay an orc with similar characteristic traits.

tehkory wrote:It doesn't matter what sphere it is, but I can't think of an 'always mouths off guy' who ever changed or deviated from that iron-clad rule.

You are the one making a generalization without actually knowing the situation well enough and clearly reading it properly as such could be seen just above. However to answer it, I did not roleplay a proud, mouthing off character before my orc. Nor am I roleplaying one now.

tehkory wrote:When that happens, you're no longer playing a character, you're playing a joke. On a game like SoI, stuff like that gets despised pretty quickly. It's not original, it's not rare, and it's not fun for anyone.

Why are you attempting to force your own view on a matter as the general consensus of the entire sphere or better yet entire pbase?

tehkory wrote:I like playing people who pick fights as much as the next guy. But I also like making sure that I(as a player) acknowledge--whether it's a battle of wits, reflexes, strength, or will--when my character has lost. And the 'always mouths off guy' is never going to do that. If that's your concept, you've got a lot of convincing to do to make most people believe that such a concept is actually a character/person instead of a joke/trope/stereotype.


I am at a loss for words.

Edit:

I have sent in a complaint to the staff along with my review of the Sphere. It was about 5 pages long or so, I can't say for sure. I wanted to express how much I was frustrated with what I personally experienced. I cannot say if it is the common experience in the sphere or not. Nor did I ever claim it to be. I did not lie and say my character was perfect. I did mention with emphesis that he was arrogant and proud. These are characteristic traits, not jokes. Some people has these traits or one of them along with many others.

At any rate why did I feel the need to report my review? Because I did not feel like the treatment I received was fitting. I thought the players who participated in it had issues which them seemed to try to solve by hopping on a game and beating down weaklings. I have made my arguments however whenever you guys responded, it was not by answering any of those arguments but mostly irrelevant things. Instead of acknowledging what happened there, some of you guys have attempted to find fault within me. It is somewhat amusing because I see it more like this:
A kid gets bullied at school. (Subject)

Now instead of talking about the bullying we are going more along the lines of, "is the kid even supposed to go to school?".

I'll write down my arguments again.

# It was claimed by some that Orcs beat down new snaga to establish their domination. My character always followed orders. Thus the said orcs were already dominating him with their rank and/or position.

# Now let us say that even if they beated him not because of dominating him, but because he annoyed them? What is the limit here? I've raised a point that this is a game we all play to have fun. So there is a connection, we are not entirely Orcs here. We are actually human beings who are playing a game where we roleplay Orcs. There are rules in place I can't claim that I know all of them honestly. However rules are in motion to make this game a fair game for all players. Which means that we roleplay our characters without disregarding rules set out to ensure everybody involved enjoys themselves.

So let us go back and think now. My character does not stop spatting even after you beat him down to 3 stars. However he does acknowledge you have beaten him and that you are stronger than him. More importantly he was already following your orders to begin with.

So what is the best thing to go about it? What I witnessed constantly was being beaten down until I was knocked out of conscious.

What I personally think I'd have done if I was the guy being subjected to the spatting guy:

#1- Stop using the code. You already know you can beat the guy down. The guy also knows you can beat him down. For a change roleplay maybe? Switch from code combat to emote combat.

#2- I can order the guy around? Oh you come here, I just remembered I need 300 firewood bundles collected and brought to the forge. To spell it out, punish him doing quite annoying tasks. Trust me collecting 300 firewood bundles would be waaaay waaay more effective than beating someone down to 1 star.

#3- If you don't want to send him or her for various not so necessary errands, concentrate on his growth. Yes, as one of the leaders it is also your job to make sure the underlings train for whatever may arise.

#4- You can ignore and laugh at him. Yes it may sound unbelievable to most but what have you got to prove by beating someone down to 1 star repeatedly if you already know you can do it? If the player also knows you can do that to him?

Overall instead of going along with things that will OOCly make the game less fun for a player, you can also do something quite constructive out of the situation. That'd at least earn my respect OOCly even if I should not the character's rp. Right now I don't truly respect the players who did that very much. Not that I know who they are, nor do I care to find out.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby tehkory » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:56 pm

Siradril, my apologies, for the brief typo of your name. As a man whose forum name is a typo, I'm likely to do it again. Names mean little.

It's clear you're taking this personally, and I'll say again...maybe don't do that. This isn't about you. Though the title of the thread -is- 'Embarrassing' so by all means, it is on topic for you to continue as you are.

As far as me pushing my views on everyone, I'm not. Trust me. I'm giving an opinion, and if it's without whole and complete understanding, so will EVERY interaction you come across, in life itself, and in particular in this game, come with the caveat that nobody in it has the full and complete understanding. Not even Admins are going to have the full measure of your character, because so much goes unthought/implied rather than outright stated. Nobody's going to have the full measure of your PC, and they never will. I'm reading what I see, and giving you my honest opinion on why what's happening is happening. I've seen it happen a dozen times on this MUD alone, over less than 30 days of playtimes, and I expect to see it a dozen more if I double it. Maybe I'm wrong about your PC, but that doesn't matter so much...because I'm seeing it how I see it, and so are others. It's not a much-favored concept anybody's happy to see AGAIN.

That is to say, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, forgive us all for perhaps assuming that it's a duck, and piling upon it our duck-based stereotypes.

But honestly? I can't see why you're complaining, myself. This is ideal. If I made a character that was mouthy and prideful nobody beat my character's ass for it at some point, I'd be sad, because that's what I'm going for. A guy that goes into an evil sphere and makes a prideful ass of himself is going to suffer the consequences, sooner rather than later. What is the ideal you're looking for?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... heyAreDown
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pride

These are relevant reading for this situation.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby MrT2G » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:20 pm

I support the idea of making the Orc sphere RPP only.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Hawkwind » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:00 pm

Or make orcs one rpp and goblins (not snagas, hated that word for a race) open to all. It worked for the best times of Minas Morgul.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Real » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:05 pm

tehkory wrote:This is ideal. If I made a character that was mouthy and prideful nobody beat my character's ass for it at some point, I'd be sad, because that's what I'm going for. A guy that goes into an evil sphere and makes a prideful ass of himself is going to suffer the consequences, sooner rather than later.

If the evil sphere becomes any less evil, I will be greatly displeased. From time to time, I think 'man, these orcs are being really damn nice for orcs'. Really though. You get upstarts who live to start shit, and, from what I've seen, you get pummeled down into the dirt regardless of what sphere you're in. Except prideful badass-right-off-the-barge characters have a grace period before they mouth off to the wrong person and then twink-flee the town instead of giving up to a one-day arrest. You end up in the gaol if you don't walk the walk, so to speak.

In the mountain, if you talk shit, you get hit, there's no room for maneuvering or "I'm gonna see how far I can take this, and toe the line" - If you can hit back harder, great, you've officially earned the right to badmouth others. If you can't, please for my sanity either quit talking back or quit b*tching. It doesn't stretch belief that after so many people waltz in and expect a red carpet even as they pretend to be lord of the mountain, that the rough and tough orcs IG would just beat them down until they smarten up. Orcs don't do clinical psychology, they don't talk stuff out, they beat you until you break and then they use your broken spirit to further their agenda.

This is a clear-cut case of...

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.

Make orcs cost an RPP or two - I think it would be far better to remove the newbie consideration entirely than to compromise the legendary grit and senseless violence of the orc sphere.

Cause if anything, I wanna see more scraps! Conflict is what makes the RPI world go round. When it changes, is when people stop taking it as ICly-motivated callouts/violence and start calling in the heavies cause it's 'trolling'. Please. Anyone who doesn't like something others do to their character can scream troll and it gets taken as such, apparently there's a very fine line.

Hawkwind:
While I agree in theory, I feel like having newbie goblins will just fuel their general helplessness. And result in more situations like this one; it seems to me that a newbie has to fully understand what he's getting himself into or you end up with a...well,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnO9Jyz82Ps
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Frigga » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:32 pm

But we used to have 0 RPP newbie Orcs, so what changed to make that no longer desired?
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby radioactivejesus » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:37 pm

I could probably name dozens and dozens of 0RPP, brand-new to SOI goblins/orcs who have created a positive impact for the sphere, and enjoyed their time within it.
I'm strongly against making it so that RPP is required for people to play in the evil sphere. A disclaimer in the description of the race choice would be fine, however.

Also keep in mind that both the orc that prompted this board post, as well as the orc that was killed and prompted Nimrod's earlier post here were both in RPP roles. http://www.middle-earth.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2210
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Oblivion » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:49 pm

That was, If I recall Correctly, back when there were actual coded differences in the stats and racial height/weight of an 'Orc' and a 'Goblin'.

These days there is just the one race and it's pretty much the player's intention whether they want to be considered a 'goblin' IE a smaller, typically weaker and more well-known for being the snively/groveling schemers, or an 'orc'.

'Back in the Day tm' when you came into the 'bad guy sphere' with 0 rpp, or wanted to experience it for the first time, you would roll a goblin and it was very clearly defined that the goblins were the whipping boys, they were the 'lesser' of the evil races and could expect very little in the way of anything other than the left-overs and being walked on.

That distinction gave even fresh 'Orcs' someone they could be 'orcy' over, even if they couldn't boss around other more experienced orcs there was almost always this subclass of lesser creatures that they could push around.

Gothakra : Chain of command
Ba'Zaak - npc over-warlord of the clan
Zaak - Warlord of the clan
Zuruk - the Zaak's sergeants : had to be acknowledged by the Zaak as a worthwhile orc as well as maintane a 'mob size' of at least three acknowledged orc followers he kept dominated.
Puruk - (pushdug uruk) - The highest rank of authority a goblinoid could attain, and he was the goblin boss who herded them around/taught them the general ropes and rules/stuck up for the ones being 'unduly harassed' (this was typically executed by the Puruk organizing his goblins and catching the 'offending uruk' alone in a dark corner and knocking them out and stripping them of their better gear).

Then it was all Unranked Orcs.
Then the snagas.

Basically the crap rolled down hill. If the Zaak was angry he took it out on his Zuruks, then the Zuruks would take it out on their uruks, and the uruks would take it out on the snaga.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby WorkerDrone » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:09 pm

Other than returning to the distinction between "weak orc" ie "goblin" and "strong orc" ie "uruk", and putting an RPP price on the latter, I don't think there should be an 'entry fee' to get into this sphere in some capacity. And even then, I don't think it's really necessary.

That's... a dumb idea.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Real » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:38 pm

Fine, GOD

Put the disclaimer thing then, so people know what to expect.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby radioactivejesus » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:38 pm

I really love how being an orc or a goblin is determined by your height/weight and focus in stat picks, and your choice of sdesc, rather than how much RPP you have. Not all newbies want their character concept to be the snaga whipping boy, some of them might want to be a bog-average sized orkish soldier. Makes sense to me for the most common RPP level to have access to the most common size of orc, rather than a midget goblin-size.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Oblivion » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:29 pm

Yea, except that forcing people to play a goblin is sort of the 'training period' for people who are interested in experiencing the 'bad guy side' for the first time. Consider it Hazing.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Melkor » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:42 pm

Have to agree with Songweaver. The game's not big enough for two spheres. One of them needs to close.

As for all the rest of this stuff... think it's been discussed pretty thoroughly.
“If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.”

― René Descartes
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Oblivion » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:00 pm

I think we should close down utterby so we can focus on the storyline that destroys it and forces all the humans to move to Laketown... *sage nod*
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Justanothacivy » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:57 pm

This thread is embarrasing.

Dude made a character. Trolled around and got killed. Then bitched about getting killed. The head Admin gets angry bitch letter and freaks out.

Lets stop acting like we are untouchable people. Consequences. Think. Stop acting surprised when bad things happen after you do something drastic.
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Icarus wrote:I'm going to kill the next character I see doing stuff like that. I'm not joking.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:18 pm

I think that Siradil is taking more heat than he should. It sounds like there was actual interest in the sphere and he felt like he was bullied. We can tell him "well you weren't actually bullied, you're just looking at it wrong" but that won't change the way he feels about the situation and is really dismissive of his concerns.

The overwhelming response here seems to be "harden up or go home" which I guess works but it's going to keep the sphere small and very particular, which if that's what orc players want will be fine I suppose.

It's also good to hear from Mongwen about her experience so thanks for posting that Mongwen.

I agree, and it seems that Siradil agrees, that if his character shows too much lip and can't back it up he deserves to get a beating. But he's also right that this is a game that's meant to be playable, so is it necessary to beat the character to unconsciousness multiple times so that he basically can't do anything in this game he's supposed to be playing and that is supposed to be fun? Cause that situation is not fun and wouldn't inspire me to spend time logging in. Siradil suggested alternative punishments that were available that would still allow him to play and also drive home the point.

We have a concerned player here who I think is doing his best to explain things through, hasn't lost his cool and the response he's getting from most parties is "You're wrong, quit whining." This is how players are driven away from a sphere and quite possibly the game. I may be in the minority by thinking that he has some legitimate concerns but perhaps the orc sphere is more hardline than I imagined it to be. However if I read this thread as a new player I would get the impression that the orc sphere was extremely particular about what kind of character is acceptable and that there is a very specific way you have to play or you're going to suffer for it to the point where your character will be unplayable.
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Re: Embarrassing

Postby Icarus » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:38 pm

Thank you Brian. Good post & points.
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