Moderator: Elder Staff
by Gobbo » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:41 pm
by Real » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:54 pm
by Hawkwind » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:20 pm
by Icarus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:31 pm
by radioactivejesus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:49 pm
by radioactivejesus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:51 pm
Real wrote:For orcs:
Medkits, or some kind of remedy loaded in the tavern.
Right now we have no way to acquire these save for robbing humans. Orc starting gear can't be turned into bandages and we need torches more than anyone from the bandages we do get.
Wider venues of sale for carcasses. I'm sure the sawbones can find use for more than cave stuff; right now he only buys the fabled cave lizards, rats, and cave boar. Rats we can only find occasionally and they're worth 1cp, lizards never appear, cave boar take a 12 hr timer and are worth 5cp.
The prices don't need to be any higher for these other things, but could we get sows, male surface boar, does, bucks and bears added to the list of stuff he takes? Any combination thereof is fine but it feels like the bodies of these other things largely get wasted since the sphere has such an overload of meat.
Alternate route: put a chase cave-rat craft in with no timer or a 30 minute one like pheasants.
Also, it would be cool if the caravan visited a bit more often. Maybe we could make it a weekly thing that players in the sphere could plan/save up for?
by tehkory » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:00 pm
radioactivejesus wrote:also basically all of this. Especially the rat thing. Human newbie hunters are allowed to flush rabbits from the absolute safety of their town and branch new abilities. Orcs need a craft of their own to parallel that.
by Matt » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:44 pm
by radioactivejesus » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:03 am
tehkory wrote:radioactivejesus wrote:also basically all of this. Especially the rat thing. Human newbie hunters are allowed to flush rabbits from the absolute safety of their town and branch new abilities. Orcs need a craft of their own to parallel that.
Alternatively, dear God, remove the ability to spawn wildlife animals inside town/from safety, because lord is that silly.
by Jarlhen » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:05 am
[From Shammat] The Dark Lord demands more mashed potatoes.
by Icarus » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:08 am
by Patty » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:16 am
by Frigga » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:04 pm
by Tykanis » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:49 pm
by tehkory » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:22 pm
Tykanis wrote:Now touching on adding more danger to animals. In real life you can kill boars with nothing more than a knife, I've seen it happen many times before a bear not so much. However if you make already dangerous critters (that have killed many many many PC's I might add) more dangerous it literally only succeeds in killing more of the newblets that wander out first things first faster. I once had a character that dualwielded longknives, and I could literally one man bears, packs of wargs, and wolves with little more than a scratch due to my -skill- with my weapons and defensive techniques. Now if you look canon almost everyone in the fellowship killed close to a legion if not more of orcs which I honestly think would be way more dangerous when you have a massive amount attacking you at once. Not to mention, No one in Utterby would ever be able to go outside as if you haven't already noticed we lack the Combative backbone as everyone seems to want to be a leatherworker or some other craft that we didn't have as many before though they were more skilled and had a ton of combatants. Though now we are on the opposite end of the spectrum with too many crafters that aren't that great at their craft and too little combatants.
by mongwen » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:39 pm
by LukeRM » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:30 pm
tehkory wrote:Tykanis wrote:Now touching on adding more danger to animals. In real life you can kill boars with nothing more than a knife, I've seen it happen many times before a bear not so much. However if you make already dangerous critters (that have killed many many many PC's I might add) more dangerous it literally only succeeds in killing more of the newblets that wander out first things first faster. I once had a character that dualwielded longknives, and I could literally one man bears, packs of wargs, and wolves with little more than a scratch due to my -skill- with my weapons and defensive techniques. Now if you look canon almost everyone in the fellowship killed close to a legion if not more of orcs which I honestly think would be way more dangerous when you have a massive amount attacking you at once. Not to mention, No one in Utterby would ever be able to go outside as if you haven't already noticed we lack the Combative backbone as everyone seems to want to be a leatherworker or some other craft that we didn't have as many before though they were more skilled and had a ton of combatants. Though now we are on the opposite end of the spectrum with too many crafters that aren't that great at their craft and too little combatants.
Newblets dying is less a problem with the game's difficulty level and more a problem with the failure of sphere leadership to grab newbies/drag them in/educate them(and a failure of the game to guide newbies into the clans that would do this). No amount of safety(besides 0 danger) is going to stop a newbie dying when he heads 2 dozen rooms from Utterby with neither armor nor weapon.
The danger(grievous wounds, etc.) that people refer to really just means people went out without being taught how the game works, and that'll kill you every time.
RE:being able to kill bears with knives, well. That's definitely something silly. Bears likely need some basic armor upgrades. Most everything in game needs that, truly. The danger sometimes needs to be less from upgrading base damage, and instead making things harder to kill in various ways. Like I said elsewhere, there's more than one way to make something better.
by Eru » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:28 am
tehkory wrote:Newblets dying is less a problem with the game's difficulty level and more a problem with the failure of sphere leadership to grab newbies/drag them in/educate them(and a failure of the game to guide newbies into the clans that would do this). No amount of safety(besides 0 danger) is going to stop a newbie dying when he heads 2 dozen rooms from Utterby with neither armor nor weapon.
by Tykanis » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:27 pm
by Matt » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:39 pm
by tehkory » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:29 pm
I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.
Edited to add: Please don't mess with wildlife. We did that at the start of Alpha and it took some time to find a happy medium while characters were lost as tweaks were made. If you're unhappy with a group taking down a troll, load up some more and throw them at the group to make it more of an even field.
by Matt » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:55 pm
by Justanothacivy » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:34 pm
Icarus wrote:I'm going to kill the next character I see doing stuff like that. I'm not joking.
by Hawkwind » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:26 am
tehkory wrote:I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.
We have simply very different definitions of what leadership should be doing, I suppose. This game is very incredibly weak(human-side) on 'newbie-oriented' clans, to a very painful level. That's not solely player-leadership's fault, but(this is a running theme of 'Kory's problems with Utterby' the fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation, or to making this pretend world where that sort of thing makes sense. It's the perennial problem of Utterby, and has less and less to do with individual player leadership as time goes on.
by Gobbo » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:12 am
Hawkwind wrote:tehkory wrote:I don't believe this is necessarily true. I have brought numerous new players under my wing and they'll do what they want to do regardless if you try to educate, restrict, or mentor them in another direction. Some go off and get killed while some don't and they learn to survive and isn't the fault of the leadership PC's, it's due in part to how different SOI is from other games out there.
We have simply very different definitions of what leadership should be doing, I suppose. This game is very incredibly weak(human-side) on 'newbie-oriented' clans, to a very painful level. That's not solely player-leadership's fault, but(this is a running theme of 'Kory's problems with Utterby' the fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation, or to making this pretend world where that sort of thing makes sense. It's the perennial problem of Utterby, and has less and less to do with individual player leadership as time goes on.
I
Saying Utterby is weak on newbie-friendly clans is a complete and utter misnomer as they are for all intents and purposes the same clans we've ever had in the history of this game. What we do have is a problem entirely with veteran players, players in leadership, players playing a little too close to the Laketown Vice, Greed and selfishness, in big heaping ore-filled sacks.
A changing of the 'guard' (I use that term not just to refer to the guard) may be required, fresh, eager young blood allowed to lead, not the same clutch of PC's who normally do so. While commendable for their leadership, fatigue and weariness are very easy to tell on them and it has a trickle down effect.
II
Why would we ask staff for lore, for background, for any sort of deep meaning for the sphere when the majority will gush and fawn over it on the forums then utterly disregard it once IG as we have always done? Mutants in Atonement, Haradrim in any shape or form, warg armor, warg meat, warg anything in Utterby? No again, this is players, it should come from us and spread, it should be created between players and spread to others.
Collectively we could very easily begin establishing some fortifying documentation, lore, traditions. Something I'm sure Frigga and the lads would be more than thrilled with, be happy to read and love to stand by.
III
In my view, Uttery is spoiled, it is spoiled for choice, for decisions for everything (this both IG and OOC). Look at the orcs, admittedly a smaller sphere but they have a fraction, a mere fraction of what is available to Utterby, they have one clan and a very linear command structure yet between themselves, they thrive (recent stabby bits excluded) together. The players, both IG and OOC on the human side. Bickering, snatching, hoarding things IG and trying to find some phantom reason for lament on the forums.
The fact that Utterby is a pretend-sphere that doesn't have any culture or real weight. Please, express clearly what you mean. Do you try to say that you are unable to find any yourself? That what is established in a fleeting, short-term sphere is not enough to warrant your playing?
There's not a lot of momentum towards newbie-orientation A sweeping generalization at best. There is the same, if not more by dint of the smaller size sphere. From my own viewings people are more than eager to chase down new players and uplift them, to motivate them, give them purpose, lead by example. But as mentioned above, it is not the higher leaders that are doing so but the 'Commoners' the unsung heros of the game that will never slay the dragon, nor take the sword from the stone.