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Losing interest

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Losing interest

Postby biral » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:15 pm

The title says it.. But part of this is because of the orcs, actually all of it. I enjoy the way orcs live, warfare and warfare. But I cannot play there because my time put into a character goes nowhere. A while ago I mentioned I'd lost a PC in that sphere with no RP. This drove me away from the sphere.

So what did I do, I rolled a human and roleplayed and whatever I could to keep the game interesting enough for me to login. Yet I still find my self oppressed to Yrcish ways. The way they continually march to utterby for the reason just to kill the players. I had the opportunity to live upon capture and a brighter future than I thought. After four days of being mostly in one room with not even over three hours of RP, in over 40 hours of login, I can say I'm pissed off and I would rather have had my pc killed right there instead of being led on.

Upon my stay with the opposite sphere, I saw.. Five, MAYBE six PC corpses? In four days? That's one PC death a day, human side. What SHIT is this? Are we trying to kill players faster than they can roll? I'm very upset, not by the fact I was killed after being led on, I am upset about that, but I'm even more upset because I feel cheated to play in the Yrch environment in hopes of my character living. I'm upset because the orc players continue to make it nearly impossible to go outside utterby's walls unless you're not afraid of losing your character.

WHY do orc players do this? Let's say they're paying the orc to kill a pc with a gold, a gold? Or three? Really? A PC can make SO MUCH more coin that that if they were given the time to and freedom to. I know for a fact because some had thousands in coin, all for themselves. So let me ask you orc players, why do you continually press the humans and not give them a chance to hone their skills while you guys twink yours on wargs that greet you on your doorstep, while humans have to go out quite a bit to face anything besides the odd wolf that comes to the gates, and why would they do that if they're relatively new with the risk of dying by the hands of orcs or because they simply cannot fight the mobs out there?

You guys continue to grow stronger. Humans continue to roll pcs with potential that fade out just as fast because of Yrch.

Right now I have little interest in actually creating a new PC. If I roll a human I will just become another kill to them in little to no time. I shouldn't have to spar and wait twelve hours to raise my skills because its all I can do to save my pc's ass from orcs. I should be able to hunt and kill etc. But no. I have insufficient RP to play any special races so I don't have much variety. So, all I can do is roll another human, but why would I do that?

I can see people quitting this game and finding other muds because the orcs kill all the new humans and they'll lose interest fast.

Something needs to be done NOW.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Tykanis » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:59 pm

(sorry the mousepad once again erased a large portion of what I was typing) I do however believe I have mentioned something on the subject as most newbies seem to die faster than mayflies, reroll and have it happen again and just ultimately lose interest. Which is why most of Utterby is crafters without anything to craft with since the few that do know their way around the combat system cannot supply all of them. However at the moment we seem to be losing more players than are being gained. Just some food for thought.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Tykanis » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:05 am

I do believe I have mentioned something of this sort in the past. At least the part of newbies losing interest fairly quickly because they die faster than a mayfly, roll another character just to have it happen again. Which is also why a majority of the human side is sadly crafters, making having materials to craft with near impossible to craft with. Thankfully there are an albeit few, of us on human side that can work our way into the combat system and last a while we do
You finish eating a green and brown mushroom. You still feel hungry
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Tykanis » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:05 am

Oh hey....I guess it posted....After the post that was because it got deleted.....whatever I give up lol.
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You are starving!
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Justanothacivy » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:06 am

Having just lost my PC to the human sphere a few days back I guess my only comment to the OP is this.

Do not go into a hostile area if you do not want to risk your character.

Accept that death may be an outcome to your actions if they are dangerous.

Humans have killed just as many orcs as orcs have killed humans.

If PvP turns you off, stay away from it, or learn from it and press on. :mrgreen:

No one likes to lose their PC, especially if they are new. I don't know why your leadership would put a greenhorn into a situation like that but you were probably playing a role that requires you to fight against the orcs.

I'm sure the two spheres will collide again and again due to proximity and the fact the only way to get iron, since it was taken out of shops, is to control the bog and the surrounding lands. Don't take it personally, orcs murdered and killed many humans in the Tolkien setting and they were -hated- for their cruelty. If you are interested after capture of playing a slave then by all means contact Staff and let them know. An orc would never get that option if captured.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Siradril » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:55 am

I personally think that neither sphere should go 2 rooms or even 10 rooms to the other sphere's base entrance and hunt for their players. Unless you are planning to lay siege. If you want PvP which I'd assume almost all of the Orc Sphere wants, then establish an OOC link to the other sphere, see if they'd be up for it and arrange a RPT.

Now to say that you shouldn't kill Humans or vice versa is entirely wrong. However I must also note that the ratio of combatants to crafters is like 1 to 9 right now. Maybe even less, the crafters or the new players seems more interested in their crafts, so when they leave to chop down trees it doesn't help them if they are killed. (Still not saying it is wrong)

Now consider it happening over and over again, then you'll have an idea about how frustrated they are.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Mithrandur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:04 am

Justanothacivy wrote:Having just lost my PC to the human sphere a few days back I guess my only comment to the OP is this.

Do not go into a hostile area if you do not want to risk your character.

Accept that death may be an outcome to your actions if they are dangerous.

Humans have killed just as many orcs as orcs have killed humans.

If PvP turns you off, stay away from it, or learn from it and press on. :mrgreen:

No one likes to lose their PC, especially if they are new. I don't know why your leadership would put a greenhorn into a situation like that but you were probably playing a role that requires you to fight against the orcs.

I'm sure the two spheres will collide again and again due to proximity and the fact the only way to get iron, since it was taken out of shops, is to control the bog and the surrounding lands. Don't take it personally, orcs murdered and killed many humans in the Tolkien setting and they were -hated- for their cruelty. If you are interested after capture of playing a slave then by all means contact Staff and let them know. An orc would never get that option if captured.



My only beef, I think, with how the current interactions have been is I personally feel that orcs have been attacking human players -too- close to Utterby. Some have reportedly been attacked/killed literally less than 5 rooms away from the town's gates, and more often than not, this is with the pure intention of taking someone down to 1 star in order to capture, or kill.

That said, I'm all for PVP, and I understand that the orc sphere is very heavily combat oriented, but Utterby at its roots, is not. And as more and more pc deaths come to pass, more and more players in the town are feeling less and less inclined to leave the town's walls, which in turn feeds to stagnation and eventually some players may stop logging in all together because they cannot do what they wished to do.

My suggestion for this though, if it can be agreed on by both sides, is maybe come up with a 'semi-safe' bubble which may be x rooms away from each town's gate that is generally regarded as a 'no kill zone' by each sphere where, yes, roleplay and fun and harrassment can take place, so long as it isn't with the intention of maiming said pc in any permanent fashion. By all means, whoop and hollar and chase down those heavy-set woodsmen back to the town, or that sniveling orc back to its den, but don't fire a volley of arrows at them with the intent to kill, or sneak in, toss one emote and immediately go to code a few seconds later.

This could even be made apparent by modifying the room descriptions with colored text with something like "The sound of saws and axes can be heard in the distance, and the town of Utterby can be seen not far away to the (insert general direction)

Or in the case of orcs "The ground here is trodden by many footprints and and bones, their number only increasing as one heads closer (insert general direction).

This would prevent many 'accidental' attacks/killings in both cases where orc parties might not realize they're 2 rooms outside of utterby, or hunters and so on might realize they're close to the Orc caves and might want to fall back.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Justanothacivy » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:10 am

Mithrandur wrote:
My only beef, I think, with how the current interactions have been is I personally feel that orcs have been attacking human players -too- close to Utterby. Some have reportedly been attacked/killed literally less than 5 rooms away from the town's gates, and more often than not, this is with the pure intention of taking someone down to 1 star in order to capture, or kill.



Does that include the human PC's that sat outside the orc caves gates and peppered whoever walked outside with arrows, set jog, and ran all the way back to Utterby?

I encourage role play before engagements. This should be a standard that is reinforced by everyone doing it. Though I stand by "If you can't stand the heat, please step outside the kitchen, cool off, and come back in and do some cooking of your own!" :mrgreen:
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Maylin » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:14 am

I have to say, I agree with Mith, the attacks on Utterby are too often and too close and many instances there's been little to NO rp actually done before orcs swoop in and kill people. I actually just recently invited a friend here, he's played MAYBE two or three days now, and he said he was killed by a group of orcs, NO emotes whatsoever, they just went directly to code and killed him.

This isn't okay. This is an RPI. NOT a hack and slash. People need to act like it and actually make it interesting. There's more depth to orcs than blindly, mindlessly killing things.

This is why so many NEW -players- (NOT just 'new' PCs) DON'T want to come back.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Mithrandur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:24 am

Justanothacivy wrote:
Mithrandur wrote:
My only beef, I think, with how the current interactions have been is I personally feel that orcs have been attacking human players -too- close to Utterby. Some have reportedly been attacked/killed literally less than 5 rooms away from the town's gates, and more often than not, this is with the pure intention of taking someone down to 1 star in order to capture, or kill.



Does that include the human PC's that sat outside the orc caves gates and peppered whoever walked outside with arrows, set jog, and ran all the way back to Utterby?

I encourage role play before engagements. This should be a standard that is reinforced by everyone doing it. Though I stand by "If you can't stand the heat, please step outside the kitchen, cool off, and come back in and do some cooking of your own!" :mrgreen:



Like I suggested, a bubble for both spheres. I'm not saying humans are entirely innocent in this either, I know it's happened in the past. But when over half a dozen human players are attacked/maimed on what feels like Utterby's front porch, it really sort of just sours the mood of the sphere.

Utterby Pcs, like I stated before, are not all combat oriented, and many have no combat skills at all and have 0 interest in making combat pcs. So telling them "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" means when they get out of the kitchen, they don't come back. Which in the long run hurts game numbers.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby twitchyweasel » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:27 am

I am not denying that there have been farces committed by both sides, on offense and defense. However, I do think Human-side PCs need to understand the danger of the Mirkwood. We are at the edge of civilization. The frontier, so to speak. Danger is -supposed- to be present stepping out into the woods. It isn't so tough to find some combat PCs to go outside with you, and it gives some RP to the combat/other combat PCs. :D
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Mithrandur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:42 am

twitchyweasel wrote:I am not denying that there have been farces committed by both sides, on offense and defense. However, I do think Human-side PCs need to understand the danger of the Mirkwood. We are at the edge of civilization. A rough and tumble logging frontier, where danger lurks everywhere outside. It isn't so tough to find some combat PCs to go outside with you.



Actually it's more difficult than you think. If it isn't an official patrol by the guard, most won't bother. Hunters generally sneak off alone, and even then, when orcs come in groups of 2-3 and just camp outside the gates there's not really much that can be done. Especially when unless it's a pre-planned thing the sphere generally only ever -has- 1 or 2 combatants at a time online.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby twitchyweasel » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:47 am

Perhaps. I have only ever played combat PCs, so I may not be the best judge, from the crafter side of things.

I can't address your issue with number of combatants online, but I do know from my time as a Guard PC, that one of their duties is to escort and protect citizens of the settlement. Maybe send a few complaints in to their boss, if someone is online (and available to play) and won't go out with you.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Songweaver » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:13 am

I'm sorry, because it's not my intention to offend. However, honestly, the original post in this thread is ridiculous.

In a game where PVP is the only source of meaningful danger (because there aren't many plots or the right design to make Mirkwood scary), you're going to blame the orcs for doing what orcs are supposed to do?

And, when they captured your character, you're going to complain that they only roleplayed with them for three hours over the course of several days, instead of fawning over them non-stop as though they had nothing better to do with their logged in time? That's three hours of play with the orcs as a prisoner more than what most PCs get. And beyond that, plenty of time alone to solo-roleplay as a prisoner, which is not without value.

Between this thread and the other, the only thing that I can be sure of, Biral, is that you are acting with an incredible amount of assumed entitlement. You're acting entitled to not having to experience danger to your character's well-being. You're not entitled to that. I'm sorry. If you really don't want to risk death, don't play a character that leaves the walls of Utterby; it's Mirkwood!

This is an RPI, not a MUSH. Danger is a FEATURE. Permanent Death is a FEATURE. There are reasons for that.

Orcs will kill humans. Perhaps, if it's becoming a bigger issue IG in Utterby because of increased frequency, that should be something dealt with IG. Lay a trap for the offending orc(s), make plans, turn it into RP, and then do something about it.

It's not like Utterby's outnumbered, or like they ever will be. This can be dealt with entirely in-character, and should be.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Gobbo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:27 am

From what I've seen of pvp. It is very much a situation of orcs visiting Utterby at least twice a RL day. Attempting to pvp lone hunters and crafters without any pvp. Now in the orcs favor they do try to capture people and not kill out right.

So the human sphere decided to try to same by going out to the orc mountains. Camping out and waiting for lone hunters to jump and capture. Unfortunately I dont think there has been a single instance of the humans doing this successfully. I've personally been involved in attacking two orc's on two seperate occasions. Both times the enemy instant fled back to safety.

I think that is the problem. The orcs have taught humans to fear them and to stop going outside. But the humans have not had a recent victory to give them a much needed moral boost.

I just went out with a human group of 3 players. None of us had less than 2 rpp. Our first sighting of orc we tried to RP and not go to code, they fled instantly. The reinforcements fortunately gave us some rp before man-handling us..but its only because wargs are the only race in the game with night vision that they could've tracked our group so fast. Also if the initial player didn't instant run away to get help we would've been fine

I suppose that is why we have rpp to begin with because our good pvp etiquette got us screwed. I think all we are lacking human side is some good combat players while the orcs have some veterans.

I dont want to recommend sweeping changes to balance when this problem could solve itself with smarter play and good leadership. What the humans truly need is leadership which is sorely lacking right now.

The guard needs a change from the bottom up. It needs more incentive to draw in players, it needs actual leadership to hone the newbies into decent characters. It needs to actually pay its players a decent wage. I mean its made up of mercenaries, I would assume fighting orcs and spiders is worth more than 20 copper a month.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Songweaver » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:34 am

The orcs were doing this months ago. I stopped them by laying a trap and killing off their offending scouts. Most orcs aren't going to Utterby every day. Also, don't underestimate how many orcs the humans have killed. Or at least, that the hillfolk had killed. :p The door has swung both ways, and if it's swinging in the orcs' favor right now -- honestly, good for'em! Most of the time, orcs are the punching bags on SOI. Playing a human doesn't entitle you to constant victory; that was only true in Gondor, because of awful administration.

Beyond that, I believe you, Gobbo, about the inherent problem with organization and whatnot human-side. But, it's a problem that can be overcome with effort, and it should be.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Brian » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:42 am

Gobbo wrote:I just went out with a human group of 3 players. None of us had less than 2 rpp. Our first sighting of orc we tried to RP and not go to code, they fled instantly. The reinforcements fortunately gave us some rp before man-handling us..but its only because wargs are the only race in the game with night vision that they could've tracked our group so fast. Also if the initial player didn't instant run away to get help we would've been fine


Wargs have night vision?
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Mithrandur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:45 am

Brian wrote:
Gobbo wrote:I just went out with a human group of 3 players. None of us had less than 2 rpp. Our first sighting of orc we tried to RP and not go to code, they fled instantly. The reinforcements fortunately gave us some rp before man-handling us..but its only because wargs are the only race in the game with night vision that they could've tracked our group so fast. Also if the initial player didn't instant run away to get help we would've been fine


Wargs have night vision?


From what I've heard, they have infravision, yes
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Brian » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:50 am

Mithrandur wrote:
Brian wrote:
Gobbo wrote:I just went out with a human group of 3 players. None of us had less than 2 rpp. Our first sighting of orc we tried to RP and not go to code, they fled instantly. The reinforcements fortunately gave us some rp before man-handling us..but its only because wargs are the only race in the game with night vision that they could've tracked our group so fast. Also if the initial player didn't instant run away to get help we would've been fine


Wargs have night vision?


From what I've heard, they have infravision, yes


I guess it's probably more trying to represent that they use smell as their primary sense? That would make sense to me.

Still, if characters with night vision are leading characters without it they should account for the fact that they'd basically be leading people who are blind. The terrain of Mirkwood is such that it'd be impossible to move at more than a snail's pace without light! I know the warg players are high RPP players so I hope they take that on and don't lead groups of orcs blithely around the wood at night as if the orcs can see just fine.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Songweaver » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:56 am

I wasn't privy to Gobbo's experience on either side, but I would imagine that the orcs were carrying torches, or at least a singular torch, because otherwise they couldn't actually target anyone at night regardless of whether or not the wargs have infravision.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Gobbo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:59 am

Songweaver wrote:I wasn't privy to Gobbo's experience on either side, but I would imagine that the orcs were carrying torches, or at least a singular torch, because otherwise they couldn't actually target anyone at night regardless of whether or not the wargs have infravision.


Torches were lit once they were in the same room thanks to the guidance of the warg.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Mithrandur » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:00 am

Songweaver wrote:The orcs were doing this months ago. I stopped them by laying a trap and killing off their offending scouts. Most orcs aren't going to Utterby every day. Also, don't underestimate how many orcs the humans have killed. Or at least, that the hillfolk had killed. :p The door has swung both ways, and if it's swinging in the orcs' favor right now -- honestly, good for'em! Most of the time, orcs are the punching bags on SOI. Playing a human doesn't entitle you to constant victory; that was only true in Gondor, because of awful administration.

Beyond that, I believe you, Gobbo, about the inherent problem with organization and whatnot human-side. But, it's a problem that can be overcome with effort, and it should be.


I think the biggest issue is, Orcs aren't just coming now and again and harrassing players, they're killing people as close as 2 rooms away from utterby, sometimes with amazing rp, but sometimes with very poor RP.

This isn't to excuse the actions of the Human sphere when they do it, but the Orc sphere is, to my understanding, something along the lines of 80-90% combat, 10% crafter, where as in Human sphere, it's almost the complete opposite of 75% crafters, 25% combatants. So if these numbers are even anywhere close to accurate, orc sphere camping outside human sphere is sort of just like.. picking on the special-needs kids. There's not really much these pcs can do to defend themselves against pvp and it's just completely one-sided encounters.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Songweaver » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:28 am

This isn't to excuse the actions of the Human sphere when they do it, but the Orc sphere is, to my understanding, something along the lines of 80-90% combat, 10% crafter, where as in Human sphere, it's almost the complete opposite of 75% crafters, 25% combatants. So if these numbers are even anywhere close to accurate, orc sphere camping outside human sphere is sort of just like.. picking on the special-needs kids. There's not really much these pcs can do to defend themselves against pvp and it's just completely one-sided encounters.


If it's true that the human sphere is only 10-25% combatants, then that's indicative of another problem entirely. However, we're not talking gigantic orc patrols sitting nearby Utterby and kidnapping babies; from what I've read in this thread, and what I've seen, it seems like the work of 2, maybe 3 orc PCs at most.

There are already protective measures two rooms out from Utterby, in nosneak/nohide rooms. It's not like Utterby's a bastion of security and strength. It is what the PCs make it.

Ultimately, the job of protecting Utterby comes down to the Merchant Guard. This is certainly a problem that they can do something about IG.

All of that said, I'm not a proponent of the two sphere design for SOI at this time (and in most cases), as I've posted elsewhere, and for reasons other than those presented by this thread.

Gobbo wrote:Torches were lit once they were in the same room thanks to the guidance of the warg.


Yeah, that's pretty lame, then. I agree. As I've always said, "Players are twinks." :p
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Patty » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:02 am

Biral. Your rp is completely self serving from an OOC perspective. You seem to want everyone to accommodate whatever roll you have in your mind for yourself no matter if it fits into everyone else's rp. Also, we went above and beyond to set stuff up and rp you. We can't log on every time you are on to babysit you, that's just reality. We actually had a rpt set specifically for -you- but your impatience and attitude nixed that.
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Re: Losing interest

Postby Doublepalli » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:16 am

One coded room of no-hide seems a bit short, tbh. But at the same time, a coded distance of three no hide rooms is a bit much. Perhaps we do a two room no hide room and add it to the orc gates too?(Orcs don't have that) I'm all for having the no-hide rooms strictly be rp and harassing before code, as opposed to happening upon each other in the surrounding woods and swamp lands, and having to decide if these guys are ganna shoot first, talk first (if they aren't hidden and have pre-planned ambushing someone), or maybe you have the drop on them, and unsure wether to attack first, run, or hope they might rp with you.
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