Forgive me for snipping here, Cory, it's not my intent to use things out of context. If it comes across that way, please point it out and I'll correct it right away.
tehkory wrote:But some of us don't work along those lines. For some of us, OOC is and always will be OOC, and IC is and always will be IC, and never shall the twain meet. It's not my way of doing things, and I myself always try and temper IC reactions with a consideration of others' OOC enjoyment(though I'm poor at it). For some that's anathema, much as for some being OOCly disappointed isn't something that should be reflected IC. It's not necessarily wrong, or a bad way of roleplaying, just a different style.
Thanks for this, Cory. Seriously, I'm not trying to be snarky either. I do always try my best to understand that some people roleplay differently than I do, I have preached for the last year that we should allow players to play the way they want, and to allow groups that wish to play exclusively together to do just that. For me, I WANT people to express themselves in natural way that they ENJOY. To play with their friends, found their own clan, close the doors and have fun together. Whatever goes on behind closed doors is your business, well... within reason and as long as it stays within the realms of the gameworld we have provided.
My theory is that if we allow natural leaders, such as Songweaver (though we often butt heads) to establish their own clans and draw players to them and grow their clans, that they can have a ton of fun AND when they do venture out of their clan halls, which they -will- have to do if they want to keep their shops and such, they will interact with other groups of players. We're working very hard to design a game that forces some interaction with the outside world, but very little. Our focus is on -encouraging- that interaction with individuals outside your clan.
The angst that I often feel with the different 'styles' of play though, is when IC circumstances immediately become ooc issues, either on the forums, or petitions, or support tickets. I'm not laying this issue at your feet, Cory, please don't get me wrong. I'm speaking in generalities here.
So... in the end, I think we both agree on the matter. I just may do a horrible job of conveying what I'm trying to say and it may come across as an attack on an individual's style.
So... thank you. I will attempt to keep this in mind in the future when dealing with these kinds of things.
tehkory wrote:I particularly try to avoid OOC frustration being put into my character, because I don't think other people's enjoyment or characters should be subjected to my changing bad moods. If I didn't enjoy a scene OOCly, that's not something my character needs to express. My character needs to express MY CHARACTER's emotions. I once spent an entire week with my PC complaining about an upcoming RPT, one that I was personally looking forward to, because ICly, that's what was felt. The forums are where I'm going to express OOC opinions.
This is an -extremely- difficult thing to do, Cory. If you're successful at it, you're a much better roleplayer than I am, because I know for a fact that my ooc mood often times finds its way to my character.
tehkory wrote:More on-topic, like a lot of people are pointing out, the best part of this thread--one that changed and improved my otherwise uninformed, mostly neutral opinion of you in many ways--is that you're willing to take and weather even vitriolic criticism, and put out your vision of the game for the future, even if it is uncompromising and something that concerns me.
Well thanks for that, Cory, I appreciate it. My determination to listen to, and try to respond to as many posts as I could has brought a calm to me over the last five days or so. It's allowed me to step outside of my passionate thoughts and try to put myself in to other people's shoes. I don't always do a good job of it, but I try, damnit. *wink*
I too, appreciate the basic calmness of most of the posters in this thread.
I think I understand your concern at my being so stubborn on a few things, Cory. I would only try to assure you that the main reasoning for my stubborn behavior is that I simply refuse to paint myself in to a corner on some things. I refuse to put myself in to a position where if I say 'yes, I'll do that' and I know that in the future I may have to modify that rule. (If that were to happen, I know that many would attack my modification and say I'm wishy washy, or a liar or worse.)
I would also like to point out that on those points where I state 'at staff discretion' that Elder Staff are discussing ways to internally regulate these things as well as how we will deal with exceptions to the rule. I firmly believe that these internal regulations do not need to be made public, hence my stubborn stance on the 'staff discretion' point on several things. So please don't think that I'm looking for a way to cheat the system.
For me, it's all about creating a solid set of rules that we can give to players (along with the staff discretion stuff) and being absolutely consistent in following those rules. I do not want a lot of addenda to the rules, changes or exceptions. I want to be absolutely consistent, and in order to achieve that, the rules need to be fully worked out, considered and debated.
Of course that's not the only reason we've not posted our rules for all things. The reason, mostly, is that we've just not gotten around to it yet and it's been pushed this way and that way. It's just gotten lost in the shuffle of the whirlwind of building the game and running the game.
In hind sight, I like to think that I would have delayed the opening of the game so we could take the time to discuss these things and get a better set of rules in place before we opened. I admit, I was the one mostly responsible for opening when we did. Why? Because I was just so damned excited to get some players in game and let them roleplay. I was literally giddy with glee when Krelm was the very first player to officially be 'in-game'. It was some heady stuff and we had a ton of fun for quite a long time. Then the realization descended on us that we had a TON of work left to do. We tried to balance building with RPA duties and one would often suffer because of the other.
But when you think about it, perhaps that was the best thing for the new version of SoI. Maybe we, as staffers, needed this turmoil to fully understand what it was we were making. I know that I've really modified a lot of my thinking on individual bits because of Alpha, though the overall vision for the game that Frigga, Icarus and I envisioned still exists and burns brightly in my mind.
So... though it's been a struggle, and many folks, including myself, have been put through a lot, and we've gotten really mad, we've had some really great times too and we've learned a lot. I've really learned how to just slow down, consider the past and try to draw conclusions based on all the facts, as well as player input. We don't want to be a game that bends to all player demands, but that doesn't mean we don't listen and consider.
tehkory wrote:That said, you intending to produce documentation is going to level out some of those concerns. But we'll see. For now I forum-lurk, as opposed to 'forum-lurk and play five hours a week.' Not such a major loss.
It is a major loss to me, Cory. I hate seeing great players leave over ooc disagreements. I won't pay lip service (lie) to you and tell you we're going to make this game exactly how you want it, or incorporate all your ideas and demands. Trying to do everything will ultimately lead to broken promises. Good intentions are not enough, thus my unwillingness to budge on certain issues and be very stingy with my promises. I will tell you though, that I'm doing my level best to provide the tools and guidance for our awesome staffers to create a vast gameworld where you can dream and chase those dreams.
It's extremely humbling and an honor to be the Lead Staffer here. I'm not the smartest, by far, nor the hardest working, by far... (our staff amazes me every single day). But I am not so humble to say that I cannot do this job. I can. And will. But I cannot do it alone. I do not intend to try to be the master of all in this game. I intend to provide leadership that takes advantage of all of our talents and gives power to those that are best suited and let them wield that talent, both with staff and players. Along with that, I will take responsibility for everything that goes on with staff. If we make a mistake, we will apologize, correct the situation and move on.
I'll never shrink away from the facts. If I've mucked something up, I'll own it and hopefully we can all move on and build the world we dream of. I won't bend to pressure and just tell you want to hear. I'll give you the hard facts when I can and if I can't, I'll simply tell you no.
Good grief! There I go rambling again...
How lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard.