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Request: Combat How Tos

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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby crayon » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:24 am

Kory wrote:
Throttle wrote:Much of the danger of guns was the possibility of essentially inflicting two wounds, an entry and an exit, with one shot. If a bullet merely lodged, it typically didn't do all that much damage and could be bound fairly easily.
Remember that bleeders had a scale, too. Mortal bleeders were fun. And probably fatal as snarfagle. I saw an ultrajauntmob go from three stars to none from a mortal bleeder, and I've seen spurting neckshots take someone from two to none too.

One of the strange peculiarities of the guns system in ARPI/PRPI, and the reason it has such erratic results in combat, is that the vast majority of the potential damage of a ranged attack comes from bleeding. In the majority of cases, the injuries caused by the bullets themselves will not be for an extreme damage value. They do, however, apply massive amounts of bleed. Especially when it applies two bleeds through entry-/exit-wounds. This creates some strange situations where you can, say, be shot and take a 5 HP bullet injury, which randomly procs a 40 point bleed, which can be completely circumvented with rapid binding depending on how lucky you are with the timing of the bleed ticking. At the same time, it also creates situations where somebody gets shot and looks marginally okay-- only to instantly drop dead when bleed ticks.

For obvious reasons, I imagine it would be fairly simple for you guys to play with the numbers to make it feel more appropriate for bows, so I don't imagine insights from ARPI/PRPI on the firearms system have much bearing.

Lots of people wrote:...blah blah Overwatch

I've attempted, on a couple of occasions, to get some idea of how to utilize overwatch, and have had fairly mixed impressions. The command is well-suited to gunfight situations, which was relevant on ARPI and to a much lesser extent PRPI, but only in cases where you're looking to automatically acquire targets at-distance without parsing through pages of qscan spam.

The command is also problematic for a wide range of reasons, which include difficulty of use and incentivization of shoot-first-RP-later, which sort of depends on what kind of play-culture you're looking for.

Throttle wrote:There's rather few ways to really die in the ARPI engine. Kithrater made it so that minor wounds can't actually kill you, it takes a solid hit to a vital point in order to die. I can't remember exactly how he described it as the Atonement forums are no longer there, but the impression I got was that the only way to die from direct damage was to be dealt something above a moderate to the head, body or neck. You could sustain a hundred minors to your arms and legs and not die, although your recovery could take a while. And then of course bleeding, of which shooting is really the only way to deal enough damage to be deadly.

This is true, but also misleading (not intentionally!). The gap between the speed with which things that can kill you (bleeding, mods+ to priority areas) do, and those that can't flail ineffectually, is pretty steep and unforgiving. Which is to say, there's not much of a cushion from unconsciousness / trauma (if trauma even drops you).


At talented sole-wield you gain access to the 'ward' command. Like 'bash' (the dual-wield with shield variant) and 'feint' (the real dual-wield variant), this command uses balance as a built-in cooldown timer. Ward sets you off-balance, then has a chance of setting your opponent off-balance as well. In and of itself, this would be of dubious practical use, HOWEVER ward has an added function. If you are in combat with multiple opponents, ward will disengage you from the multiples.

Tactical use of ward mostly consists of:

1) Using it when you are in a group, and you are NOT being attacked. This use-case possibly sets the opponent off-balance, aiding allies, increasing trip chance(?), at the expense of being off-balance yourself, which is not especially relevant when you're increasing the capabilities of multiple allies.

2) Using it to fend off multiple aggressors, when you're on your own, or tanking multiple aggressors for a group and in hot water. In the case of mobiles, one should be cognizant that following a successful ward, the disengaged mobiles will most likely stand there confused for a moment, move, then immediately aggro back into the room (possibly on you). I'm not sure how well it functions in PvP scenarios (or if it has any in-built functionality to prevent kill/hit-spam overriding its use).


I haven't seen anything mentioned regarding feint yet, and I have fairly limited experience with the command and haven't had time to really dig into it.

Second hand, however:

Allegedly, feint as a command (like the other style commands) uses your balance as a built-in cooldown timer (you go off-balance on-use). The command requires that you wield a pair of weapons, have talented dual-wield, and are in combat. You then perform an attack that (supposedly) has increased odds of critically striking(?) or possibly a damage increase. Tactically, the best use for feint is following up on a trip (ideally) or a knock-off-balance (less ideally) as this will either guarantee you a hit or significantly increase your odds of hitting, otherwise going off-balance to use it can be somewhat punishing (doubly if you miss).

Kory wrote:Currently you can never get a lodger when an item is thrown (at least with all the testing I've done). This will change. Eventually.

'Feature'/bug/anti-abuse. When a weapon is lodged, it disappears. Removing it creates a new item, which has none of the damage the previous item had. Circumvents wear & tear, hence Kithrater removed lodging.

Throwing weapons, due to bypassing limits in how many characters/mobiles can gang up on a single individual and the ease of spammability, really are highly abuseable. The damage dealt, on a strictly numerical per-throw level, sucks. But it really, really, really adds up. Or can. When people aim/fire/get/repeat every three seconds.

But yeah, more importantly, the code for it causes the original weapon to disappear and be replaced with a new one, when a lodged weapon is removed. Not only does this cause damage on the weapon to disappear, it also randomizes the variables, or was the last time Chazz and I enabled and tested it.


I think Kory and Letters have probably covered most things pretty accurately.

I'd go for a breakdown on how traps function, but I've got no idea how (or if) you folk intend to utilize that system.

If you do, well. Fair warning that it's probably going to need some coded overhaul. Traps have an awful lot of fun glitches which include such joyful things as:

1) Crashes, all day every day.
2) Getting confused during disassembly and dropping random objects.
3) Breaking during failed rolls, creating a visible, but armed, trap that's impossible to disarm, doesn't disappear over reboots, and basically requires you to walk over it repeatedly (taking massive damage and destroying your shoes) to get rid of it. Oh, yeah, and broken traps crash with roughly ten times the frequency of non-bugged traps.

You might already have a partial fix for this, depending on when/from whom you got the engine and/or patches.




Are you guys removing or disabling this command? Restricting it to crossbows?
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby krelm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:37 am

I want to pointblank a guy with a longbow.
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby crayon » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:51 am

Sounds pretty metal.

Explanation is probably due:

Blank is a command with ranged weapons that's specifically intended for use with firearms. Syntax is 'blank (target) (location)'.

You can only blank a target if they're:

1) Yourself.
2) Prone, resting, sitting, sleeping, unconscious, trauma'd, or in cover.
3) You're in combat with the target. (Being struck will ruin your aim, however, limiting the practical use.)

I can't really cite specifics on what it does, but it seems to more or less guarantee a successful shot that deals insane damage.

Historically, blank's use has primarily been dedicated to executions and suicides, though it does have some obscure, marginally abusive use-cases.

For example, with a successful hide check, you can point blank somebody, while hidden, and if they're sitting, kill them.

You can use gunfire to trauma the target to the ground, then use blank for the execution.

With high enough skill in aim, you can use it as an execute after a successful trip, or the use of a trap that applies trip.

Et cetera.

Obviously all of this has limited to nonexistent applicability to bows. Potential applicability to crossbows. But it's definitely something that was designed and implemented pretty strictly for firearms. You could probably put a dummy prog on non-crossbows to prevent its use, or just do whatever you need to codedly to make it fit.
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby Throttle » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:31 am

Blank was actually pretty realistic in its implementation (in most cases, at least) but just didn't suit the combat system that well. Same way that you could probably implement a very realistic way of swiftly slitting the throat of somebody who isn't alert, but it wouldn't do the game any good. This is doubly true in a game with two opposing spheres at war as the social stigma of twinky PKs is far less universal compared to a game structure where you were always guaranteed to be living around everyone affected by your actions.
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby kithrater » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:45 am

crayon wrote:I'd go for a breakdown on how traps function, but I've got no idea how (or if) you folk intend to utilize that system.

Oh god traps code. It's perhaps the most perfect example of insane troll logic expressed in C. I'd say just nuke it and whoever was responsible for it from orbit, and start over.
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby Octavius » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:40 am

Did someone hijack Kithrater's username on the forum? I think he just requested suicide-by-nuclear-device and that we nuke him from orbit. :)
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby crayon » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:17 am

Oh, hi, Kithrater!

I don't have any nuclear weapons, but I'm sure a lot of us have long lists of people loading without crafts or getting naked to bludgeon you with.
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Re: Request: Combat How Tos

Postby kithrater » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:31 pm

I actually fixed the without-crafts bug after a long investigation - IIRC, it was caused by pfiles quitting but then on the same boot being re-opened by admins (such as using the mob command), which didn't bother to reload the crafts, and then when the pfile was closed it would save with no crafts. But this only affected already-loaded-this-boot pfiles because its already-loaded stat didn't mem-clear properly after a quit command.

Inventory, that's just standard RPI engine memory problems. Honestly a better result than catching a crash somewhere else when a bugged item was allowed to load and cause a problem elsewhere. The best result would've been to just keep a copy of the nearest best inventory (which the server did) and then have a command for the admins to swap that inventory in upon complaint.
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