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New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

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New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Dero » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:03 am

Check out the new Palantir on Character Generation here: http://www.middle-earth.us/index.php/co ... -and-more/

Hope you guys enjoy it!
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Kayube » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:25 pm

So the character queue is back? Excellent. Obviously while it wasn't there you could still work on characters in advance just by saving the character generation fields in a text file, but it's nice to have everything there officially in the system and not to have to copy/paste.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Nimrod » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:51 pm

I'm not sure if this made it into the newsletter, but we're discussing the possibility of pre-approving stabled characters so you wouldn't have to wait for review again after a char dies. There are some issues with this, so we've not come to a final conclusion on the matter. Feel free to chime in with your concerns both positive and negative on this issue.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Taurgalas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:08 pm

An add on by an anonymous player:
"Now you stop that or I'll have you! I swear it." The man was quite clearly upset, drunk and jealous. The dozen or so spilt tankards strewn across the floor testified to it, that and he swayed like an unmoored ferry. "Get away from 'er, she don't want yer attentions." he shouted again, clawing himself between the tables lest he fall without their support. Slowly he moved, through the dock-side inn. I had to respond now, the patrons were all looking at me, so too was Brindle on the opposite side of the wide room, his latest catch was sitting right in his lap, though she was no less than thrice the weight of him and half again as tall, she laughed gaily as she pushed more sweet treats in to his mouth. I will never admit that Brindle is far better than I at this.

"You listening to me?" said the drunk as he stabbed at my shoulder with a greasy finger. The larger man looked back to his table of cronies, getting more confidence from the jeers and calls they threw at my family and their deleterious habits. "Hey, you listening? I saw wha' you wa-" and that was all the drunk managed before he tumbled back from the wooden tankard I smashed over his head. He was surprised, not entirely sure what happened nor why he bled from his crown, it took the observations of one of his gang to point out. I looked back at the auburn beauty I had snared on my charm, could of been a good ten-day or two, but alas not for me to enjoy. I turned back to find her generous lips have curled in to a wistful smile, she was shaking her head."This'll only take a moment." I lied, lifting both hands to placate her. I was still wearing her fathers ring she had shown me, thankfully she did not notice, nor the ivory comb her mother's mother had left her stuck under my armpit.

I turned to the bruiser I had hit, his friends were aiding him to his feet, while mine was already making good on his escape with the large and giggly woman and another in tow. I was alone. After a fleeting kiss atop the woman's brow and a few blushing words in her ear, I quickly followed suit to the dock front. My new boots still a little tight and uncomfortable, made even more so when the tip caught an errant leg and sent my tumbling under a table, an fine opportunity as any though and as a proud member of my trade I did indeed make good upon it before I was kicked from under it, to my feet and out in to the pouring rain.

I sighed, heavily, part of it was for theatrics the other because every single time it seems to end up like this. Not once have I enjoyed the luck of Bristle, he has a cats luck as well as its name. Still, a night of work is a night of pay, I'll give him a good run for his money tonight, the ring alone must be worth a good deal of coin.
[Petition:***] Why is there a pretty pink pony with doe eyes and a party-balloon cutie mark in the group?

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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Throttle » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:15 pm

Nimrod wrote:I'm not sure if this made it into the newsletter, but we're discussing the possibility of pre-approving stabled characters so you wouldn't have to wait for review again after a char dies. There are some issues with this, so we've not come to a final conclusion on the matter. Feel free to chime in with your concerns both positive and negative on this issue.


I believe the conventional argument against this is that it makes people more prone to abandoning (retiring or suiciding) their PCs, knowing that they can immediately log into the next one. I'd say that's a valid concern as well, and I also believe it's just best for people to not be able to instantly step back into the game a moment after their last PC's death.

It's usually just plain healthier for players to have a bit of a breather before taking up their next PC. Also consider the fact that with only one sphere on each side and probably a very small number of clans and sheer space, it's very likely that someone logging into their next PC right after the death of their previous one would be immediately presented with roleplay pertaining to that death, even if they weren't going to do anything abusive.

If there is to be a stable of pre-approved characters, I think you need to implement some kind of timer so people have to wait a few hours before they can log back in post-death. I think it's probably always going to be a bit dodgy as you can't really prevent such things as someone moving on to a stabled character with a role in the clan that just killed their previous one, something that would normally have to be taken into consideration by the reviewer.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Hawkwind » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:33 pm

I am of a similar mind to Throttle and his concerns, within our community there has been a demonstrated ability for people to drop any and all pretense of roleplay in order to get immediate satisfaction and results, be it killing to crafting to anything in between.

I believe the saying what we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value applies very strongly here, not for all us by any means but a certain aspect of our community that has recently emerged in the past few years. There must be a dedicated effort to make us value our characters, to value our interactions with each other, to value the quiet times as well as the busy ones. If we are given a stable of ready to go ones we cheapen them in every sense of the word, it's pre-approved, it's ready, they are worthless.

Any and all efforts to prevent quick, one shot PCs, immediately reentering a game upon the death of a character must be taken. I see no difference in having ready made characters set off for submission as this is no different to having them in a .txt document on your computer, but ready-approved PC's strikes me as a horrifically poor choice.

It is hard enough to remain IC when you are confronted with the same PC that had such an effect on your previous one, for good or bad. Please make us work for our characters, make them dear to us, make them worth more than anything to us, force us to think carefully about every choice we have to make from Chargen to the moment we fall on our sword!
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Emilio » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:10 pm

I don't see any problem if we use stabled characters during Alpha and Beta testing as long as we start the release of the game with a clean-slate and Admin-approved characters. But, what about newbies? Couldn't they used stabled characters for a period of time or something like until after their third character's death? Then, they would have to go through the normal process of character creation and approval prior entering the game world. At least, they would have a chance to experience both spheres. I'm experienced so I know exactly what kind of characters I want to play. So let's keep both choices opened to players.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby krelm » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:07 pm

The only problem I see with accepting stabled characters is what if you have a character on backlog for so long that the game changes and his background is no longer relevant?

As far as retiring and jumping right back in goes, I've never understood the stipulations on retirement. If you're playing a character, and that character is no longer fun, why should you be forced to continue playing him? It's a game, after all, and if the game's no longer fun it's time to change things up a bit.

And as for getting approved too fast and witnessing RP related to your death - I've had that happen before, at least twice, on SoI and Atonement. If the admins are on the ball with application acceptance, you could get in within an hour of dying. These things happen, though I can see why the argument against that happening would be valid (IE, as opposed to happening rarely, it would happen constantly).

I do, though, agree on some people needing time between characters-- especially if you just lost a particularly long-lived one.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Nimrod » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:06 am

Nice points, all. These are some of the things we're disucssing. We did discuss the idea of a cool-down timer so you couldn't log in for a specified period of time after a char dies. We didn't come to any specific conclusions on the matter.

The pros and cons to this are many. We appreciate all of your thoughts on this issue.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Throttle » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:43 am

And as for getting approved too fast and witnessing RP related to your death - I've had that happen before, at least twice, on SoI and Atonement. If the admins are on the ball with application acceptance, you could get in within an hour of dying. These things happen, though I can see why the argument against that happening would be valid (IE, as opposed to happening rarely, it would happen constantly).


The important difference is that with the traditional review method, the admin can gauge whether or not it's sutiable to immediately approve the app given the circumstances. I've let apps wait a few hours before because the player submitted a character with a role in the clan that just killed their previous one, and I've also seen abusive play result from not doing this.

While an active staff often means near-instant reviews if you die during peak hours, it also means that there's a human being with a finger on the pulse of the game behind the decision whereas a stable of pre-approved characters allows for things that an admin shouldn't allow.

I suppose if pre-approved characters can't take roles, the potential for problems would be minimal. A stable of random indie throwaways isn't an issue, it's just the notion that someone can have a clanned PC ready to immediately log into which I don't like. More than once as a clanlead, I've had to deal with someone repeatedly creating characters into my clan and promptly stealing or trying to murder people for no reason, and that sort of thing really needs a live admin to prevent.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Matt » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:58 am

I think it's a bad idea. What Throttle said.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Emilio » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:28 am

I don't think it's necessary a waiting time between characters if the player is switching spheres.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Octavius » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:49 am

Emilio wrote:I don't think it's necessary a waiting time between characters if the player is switching spheres.


That's an interesting idea.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Nimrod » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:53 pm

Throttle wrote:More than once as a clanlead, I've had to deal with someone repeatedly creating characters into my clan and promptly stealing or trying to murder people for no reason, and that sort of thing really needs a live admin to prevent.


Thanks for the input, Throttle. Yes, this is an important issue if players can just roll right into your clan. I would ask everyone to remember that we're considering just 'testing' this during Alpha; it would not necessarily be something that we keep if it doesn't pan out.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:05 pm

I really think the many negatives out weigh the possible positives.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby deerskin » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:11 pm

I do not know if RPP is coming back, but if a player is trustworthy to play responsibility-required roles in the future maybe accounts could be flagged to not have to have waiting times. New accounts or young accounts obviously wouldn't have this perk and if someone abuses it, it is not hard to revoke if its an account flag sort of thing.
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby macaelum » Sun May 04, 2014 1:13 pm

I like this:

The way you assign levels of attributes (Strength, Agility, Dexterity, Constitution, Willpower, Intelligence, Presence) allows you to control these much more than in the past. Instead of ordering them from top to bottom, you'll be able to assign how important each one is to you on a scale of 1 to 10.


But the next statement is a typo, is it not?

If they are all important, then you would set all attribute's importance to '1'.


-- since the example that follows implies 10 is most important, and 1 is least important:

Setting level of importance this way is perfectly fine:

10 - Strength
10 - Agility
10 - Dexterity
6 - Constitution
7 - Willpower
1 - Intelligence
1 - Presence

In the scenario above you're saying that STR, AGI, and DEX are the absolute most important to your character, while INT and PRE don't mean a whole lot.


Or, should I read this as setting all the attributes to the same value (whether it's 1, 5, or 10) means they're equally important (or equally unimportant)?
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Re: New Palantir is Live! Discuss!

Postby Octavius » Sun May 04, 2014 3:06 pm

macaelum wrote:Or, should I read this as setting all the attributes to the same value (whether it's 1, 5, or 10) means they're equally important (or equally unimportant)?


Yes.
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