Moderator: Elder Staff
by Letters » Fri May 23, 2014 8:41 am
by Octavius » Fri May 23, 2014 9:34 am
Throttle wrote:So sole-wield and dual-wield are available again?
toofastnig wrote:If you're going to force us to take sole-world before dual-wield, there better be several menacing varieties of giant clubs, maces and axes.
toofastnig wrote:Also, why is brawling an option when it's a default skill now?
toofastnig wrote:Also, can you edit or remove apps now, or will I have to submit a new app?
Tepes wrote:Are we going to be doing it web-based only, or will we be allowed to do chargen on the actual game itself, at some point?
Tepes wrote:That being said, I like what has been done with the skills. Makes sense to me that being a warrior takes as much as being a healer/crafter.
GreenRiver wrote:Reading through this list of sample professions, there seem to be five skills listed for woodsman. Does this mean hide/sneak should count as one skill?
Letters wrote:For those that opt to learn the skills by simply using them, I assume they'll have to develop sole-wield, first, before they can get at dual-wield? And perhaps have to get sole-wield to at least a certain level?
by Octavius » Fri May 23, 2014 9:44 am
Throttle wrote:You can cancel a submitted app with option 4 in the game's login menu. You can't actually delete apps through the website generator at all, not even unsubmitted ones.
by krelm » Fri May 23, 2014 9:58 am
toofastnig wrote:If you're going to force us to take sole-world before dual-wield, there better be several menacing varieties of giant clubs, maces and axes. Also, why is brawling an option when it's a default skill now? Also, can you edit or remove apps now, or will I have to submit a new app?
by Letters » Fri May 23, 2014 11:59 am
Octavius wrote:Letters wrote:For those that opt to learn the skills by simply using them, I assume they'll have to develop sole-wield, first, before they can get at dual-wield? And perhaps have to get sole-wield to at least a certain level?
No, I don't believe so. This governs the allocation of starting skills and backgrounds.
You begin learning any skill in-game that you can get skill checks against. Learning it in-game is still valid, but a long road based on character longevity. We're good with that.
by Throttle » Fri May 23, 2014 12:05 pm
by Letters » Fri May 23, 2014 12:17 pm
Throttle wrote:It has really never been an issue. If you pick eight skills, they all start so low that they're nearly useless.
by Octavius » Fri May 23, 2014 12:23 pm
Of course, if skill increases at low levels weren't so darn easy to get, I'd be amply mollified.
by Hawkwind » Fri May 23, 2014 12:28 pm
by Tiamat » Fri May 23, 2014 12:45 pm
Hawkwind wrote:What would the general opinion be if they were to radically lower the amount of skill points you could effectively gain? Cut them down so sharply that even adroit scan would be note worthy and a desirble for a scout?
So much that the shieldman is largely useless with his mace but dependable with tbe shield?
The Master would make the most reknowned armor of Utterby but completely dependant on the soldiers that wore it for his safety?
The swordsman that has taken a dozen orc heads in the defense of his lands but does not know how long to cook a chicken or put a chamfer on a length if wood?
My own musings see this an entirely a possitive step, more dependence on one another, more concepts to try out over different characters, stronger connections between players and above all less Hunter/fighter/craftsmen running around.
by Throttle » Fri May 23, 2014 12:48 pm
by toofast » Fri May 23, 2014 12:55 pm
Hawkwind wrote:What would the general opinion be if they were to radically lower the amount of skill points you could effectively gain? Cut them down so sharply that even adroit scan would be note worthy and a desirble for a scout?
So much that the shieldman is largely useless with his mace but dependable with tbe shield?
The Master would make the most reknowned armor of Utterby but completely dependant on the soldiers that wore it for his safety?
The swordsman that has taken a dozen orc heads in the defense of his lands but does not know how long to cook a chicken or put a chamfer on a length if wood?
My own musings see this an entirely a possitive step, more dependence on one another, more concepts to try out over different characters, stronger connections between players and above all less Hunter/fighter/craftsmen running around.
by Tiamat » Fri May 23, 2014 12:58 pm
Throttle wrote:I'd say that sounds neither realistic nor very interesting. People aren't limited to learning one or two things in life. It would just lower the overall level so the new familiar would be the old adroit and so on. In most cases, the stat setup that allows a crafting skill to go really high (beyond master) tends not to make you a particularly great warrior, and vice versa.
In fact, most of the reason people were able to become so good at many things in ARPI/PRPI was that crafts were never really developed fully so you could be a maxed out armorcrafter with your skill at adroit. Good and superior crafting was never really implemented but would have required skill levels much higher than you'd typically find in those fighter-crafters we had knocking about.
Master level in a craft was in fact extremely rare, most people couldn't even reach it because this would require stat setups that few chose. Many capped at mid-talented in weapon- and armorcrafting due to designing strong, sturdy characters. There was no reason to do otherwise there as the crafts were underdeveloped, but it seems this won't be the case here.
by tehkory » Fri May 23, 2014 5:47 pm
Tiamat wrote:It'd also make NPC encounters potentially harder, as you can set NPCs past PC limits in terms of skill.
by krelm » Fri May 23, 2014 9:35 pm
tehkory wrote:We don't need "I forgot how to sit down but I have +300 in axes" Conan who doesn't know how to swim or climb but can slaughter his way up-and-down the coast without breathing.
by Hawkwind » Sat May 24, 2014 7:25 am
krelm wrote:tehkory wrote:We don't need "I forgot how to sit down but I have +300 in axes" Conan who doesn't know how to swim or climb but can slaughter his way up-and-down the coast without breathing.
This.
RE: let's lower the skillcsp, let me say this as someone who has -actually- played a PC with Peak int and someone who's played one with -poor- int. The game(in ARPI and Parallel) made sense and was appropriately easy and difficult for peak and poor intelligences.
This is a simulation about a -frontier- people. These people are going to be hearty and competent more often than they are pathetically unable to either defend or dress themselves. These are men staring the evil and terror of the world in the face because they're arguably closer to it than Gondor is. Gondor has it easy. These people would go live in Gondor in a heartbeat. Let's not cap realistic portrayal of human beings in the head over needless, useless specialization.
I'd say that sounds neither realistic nor very interesting. People aren't limited to learning one or two things in life. It would just lower the overall level so the new familiar would be the old adroit and so on. In most cases, the stat setup that allows a crafting skill to go really high (beyond master) tends not to make you a particularly great warrior, and vice versa.
by Matt » Sat May 24, 2014 7:29 am
by Tepes » Sat May 24, 2014 7:37 am
by Matt » Sat May 24, 2014 8:36 am
by Throttle » Sat May 24, 2014 8:41 am
Can you really offer any viable reasons why it would not be worth a try? IF we do it in Alpha, see what happens, people might enjoy it. It offers people a chance to be really good, to be noteworthy in a game that is otherwise going to be very hard to distinguish yourself when so many great people are coming back to the game.
If it does not work out, we tweak INT and have the possible skill gains back to a higher level rather than doing it when skills get out of hand and forcing people to take a massive cut if it ever comes
by Letters » Sat May 24, 2014 8:43 am
Matt wrote:That was based of Atonement difficulty. Getting better in combat in the higher numbers you need specific things to happen to get a chance to go up in skill. I'm not sure we're going to have those chances nearly as much in this game.
by Throttle » Sat May 24, 2014 8:52 am
by Letters » Sat May 24, 2014 9:00 am
Throttle wrote:I don't think most of those requirments ever worked properly, at least not at the levels people expected them to apply. You could reach master combat skills fighting squicks in the sewers, although this was generally not realistically possible because by then you'd wipe out the entire population of squicks long before you were likely to have gained a skill point.
Some skills had improvement prerequisites that worked, like hide/sneak which at higher levels required that you were checking your skill against PCs, aggro mobs and things like that. If the combat ones ever worked, they kicked in at higher levels than people generally reached.
by Throttle » Sat May 24, 2014 9:07 am
by Songweaver » Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am