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What's the Deal With Retiring?

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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby Matt » Fri May 23, 2014 4:26 pm

I think the possibility of unretirement is important as well. Some people will play a PC for a very long time, get tired of it, and want to try something else. But if you don't have the option to unretire that player might just walk away for awhile. I'd rather they go make another concept to try for awhile with the option to bring that PC back then just not play at all for a bit. Just make it cost RPP, that way it'll only happen if people are serious and so it's not just 'eh, I can just unretire later'.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby Brian » Sat May 24, 2014 8:48 am

Pompadourslim wrote:Frankly, I liked playing in the world where PCs were people who might hold a number of jobs, turn up in unlikely places, and had years of in-game history to share and respond to. Those PCs always get a lot of praise, and yet the lessons of how they came to be are so seldom acknowledged.


For me, this was always one of the best things about SoI. There were characters that had been around for -years- and gone through so many different variations of what they were, and if you were lucky enough to play with them, you got to discover their personal evolution. I think that was what mad SoI special; that communal, breathing history with these characters that were the gatekeepers of the interactive story that we had made together.

I understand the desire to retire as well; I retired my longest living PC on SoI, but only after playing that character for years, and living well beyond any expectation I had of doing so. The changes in that PC, the evolution from the origins to where they ended up, both personally and professionally were nothing I could have predicted. I think that's what happens when you can't throw away, and then return to, a character that you've invested time into. You keep going and inevitably something will happen for them because you're surrounded by people that are doing the same thing, and where that takes you probably wont be where you expected and that's what makes it fun!

My stance on it is that if you feel like you've run your course with the PC, if you look back at what you've learned and known and done with this character and you say "Yes. I've lived this character as fully as I desired to. I can put this character away now because his book is closed. I'm ready to say goodbye and let their history and legacy be what it is." then retirement is a viable option. But if when you're considering retiring the PC you think that maybe you'll want to come back to them in a month, six months, a year, then it isn't the time to retire them! Those niggling feelings mean that you still see potential for this character, that their story isn't finished, and for the rest of us it means that you're removing this piece of our collective story that still has more to give and that some of us cherish and love. These pillar characters make the world, as far as I'm concerned and though you don't really have an obligation to the rest of us it's something to consider.

That's why I think retirement should be allowed, but it should be permanent. It makes people really consider if they're finished with the character, and if there are doubts I hope that they'll consider why instead of just rushing ahead because they can undo it later. Sometimes, in those moments where you are feeling bored, or like you want to try something else, those are the moments where if you keep on going you'll have an organic shift happen in your current PC that will give them growth while retaining that beautiful history and experience they already have.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby Icarus » Sat May 24, 2014 9:08 am

^ This.
[Petition: Player] I am ready to begin my interdimensional adventure.

A mutilated little orc murmurs, nodding as he mutters,
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby Songweaver » Sat May 24, 2014 9:20 am

As a counterpoint, not that I think that either route is necessarily the right/wrong route, I can think of several characters in SOI and ARPI that retired, the player went on to play other fun characters, then unretired later and continued to be awesome sources of roleplay.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby Thorongil » Sat May 24, 2014 11:50 am

Brian wrote:I retired my longest living PC on SoI, but only after playing that character for years, and living well beyond any expectation I had of doing so.


I'm 95% sure that the PC you're referring to here is the one I'm thinking of, and man do I regret not having done more with the relationship between our two PCs at the time. One of my favorite SOI stories that veeeery few people know is in there.

More on topic: I think I'd prefer permanent retirement, myself, in the majority of situations. However, I know I had a PC that, due to IC reasons, took a trip out of the gameworld, which of course made playing him during that period impossible. So if retirement/unretirement weren't an option, he wouldn't ever be able to leave and come back from this trip, which would have really taken him out of character.

Ultimately, the best solution is for the staff to have to handle retirements and unretirements on a case-by-case basis. If someone wants to unretire their PC, then they had better have wrapped things up appropriately when they retired, and have had a good reason to retire, and they had better have a good reason for coming back, as well. Retirement/unretirement is something that should be uncommon and handled on a case-by-case basis.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby tehkory » Sat May 24, 2014 4:35 pm

Thorongil wrote:Ultimately, the best solution is for the staff to have to handle retirements and unretirements on a case-by-case basis. If someone wants to unretire their PC, then they had better have wrapped things up appropriately when they retired, and have had a good reason to retire, and they had better have a good reason for coming back, as well. Retirement/unretirement is something that should be uncommon and handled on a case-by-case basis.

I'm always -strongly- for policy. SoI-that-was was always "case-by-case basis." Roles and chargen were case-by-case basis, Spheres were run on a case-by-case basis and it led to corruption and nepotism. Policy prevents favoritism(or charges of it), and helps keep the MUD on track as Admins come-and-go.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby crayon » Sat May 24, 2014 7:42 pm

pslim wrote:PC turnover, whether caused by high death rates or lax retirement policies, demotivates player investment in PCs, not just on the part of the player playing them, but on the part of other players, too.


The flipside of this is that lack of PC turnover leads to the unfortunate encouraging of a static environment with numerous entrenched PCs, general cliquishness, and the much-dreaded power creep. That sort of environment MAY be GREAT for players who have BEEN around for a long while, and established circles of people that they RP with frequently. But for newbies trying to break into the game, it can be stifling. Of course, adversity CAN be used as a TOOL for RP, but it often seems that THAT particular sort of adversity is often as much an OOC struggle as IC.

While, of course, there are numerous methods that can be used to offset these downsides, to include being awesome, it's important to actually take note of them and the impact they can have on a game.

Overall, I would be inclined towards either permanent retirement, or unretirement that either REQUIRES an RPP trust level, or COSTS some sort of disposable OOC resource that represents awesomeness, scaling AGAINST both super-early unretirements and super-late unretirements. For example, 1 RPP for every month before 2 months, or every month after, to a maximum of four. This creates a sort of sweet spot, where people both have to make SURE that retirement is what they want to do with their character before making the decision on a whim, AND penalizes the usage of retirement as a safe storage system for characters that are trying to avoid things, with costs looking something along the lines of, say:

<1 month: 2 RPP
1-2 months: 1 RPP
2-3 months: 0 RPP
3-4 months: 1 RPP
4-5 months: 2 RPP
5-6 months: 3 RPP
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby WorkerDrone » Sat May 24, 2014 9:18 pm

Given evaluation by the staff and their apparent interest (or lack of it) in unretirement but support of no-hassle retirement, I'd say that's right in the area of expectations for most admins when it comes to players. However...

I would really be in favor of unretirement, but I'd refer back to my argument against punitive costs for doing so, because it all seems to enter the cycle of discouragement from doing one thing or another. As mentioned in other posts, establishment of a policy for things is to set a precedent for anyone who works on the staff, possibly years to come.

Establishing a policy of discouragement (which isn't particular conducive to having fun in my opinion) in general, will lead to other policies based around discouragement.

Now that aside, if the ruling is no unretirement, I guess that's not really a big deal, it doesn't necessarily mean other policies will be made that are meant to discourage people from doing something that either engages them or allows them to have fun playing the game, but certainly don't allow unretirement with punitive costs involved, or just about everything will be implemented like that.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby Matt » Sat May 24, 2014 9:37 pm

I think it should either be no unretirement of a set cost of RPP across the board. You don't want to be like 'if you unretire between months 2-3 it's free but after that it's a RPP!'. If someone's playing a PC that they feel needs to go a bit further in between retirement and unretirement they shouldn't have to rush it to keep from spending a point. But I don't think it should be free. I think unretirment should be limited and to limit that you have to make it cost something.
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Re: What's the Deal With Retiring?

Postby crayon » Sat May 24, 2014 10:09 pm

The problem with treating RPP as a resource used for 'costs' and 'expenditures', a currency, of sorts, is that by doing so you actually destroy RPP's relevance as an actual measure of role-playing trust, and replace it instead with a measure of longevity. A person who accrues 1 RPP the most basic level of trust, spends it, then another the next month, and so on, will accrue more actual "points" worth of RPP than a person who attains 3 or even 4 points. A person who attains 3 or even 4 points then spends them on a single character may have 0 RPP, representing the lowest possible trust. The use of the system for costs, and its relevance as a measure of trust and capability, are mutually exclusive facets.

If my 4 RPP character dies after one month, and I'm rerolling, what is it about me NOW that means I'm not trustworthy enough to play say a 2, or 3, or even another 4 RPP character? The only reason it comes into play as a 'cost' is to discourage character types that are supposed to have some rarity, and there are a hundred-and-one other ways to work around that where it does apply. Where it doesn't apply is to unretirements, which have no reason or need to be especially "limited" persay, so much as they need to make sense and not be abusive and/or silly.
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